"preppers"

All of us should prep for localized emergencies. You never know when a nasty thunderstorm is going to kill the power in your neighborhood for a day or two. On a larger scale hurricanes tornadoes, earthquakes, they can all happen.

Now in a SHTF situation survival will likely be a combination of preps, good location, and luck. Some should plan to get out of dodge as fast as possible. Some can plan to hide in the woods and some can plan to hide in plain sight. For us IMO the best plan is to stay put as long as possible. We live in the x-burbs (extreme suburbs) three miles from us is farmland and the other side of the street is the woods. There is no sense in saying another person's plan is foolish as none of us know what form insanity will take. Do you best, do as you see fit, try to do what is right and pray hard.

A sensible person prepares for any emergency, be it political, environmental, or economic.

Our forefathers knew first hand what a government at odds with the people would do. And they took care to avoid those situations as best they could, while preparing for what they could. Just as some people put up pickled and canned foods for a rotten year, other people put up ammunition.

One need only look at Hurricane responses to see what reality will provide: Ike, Katrina, etc.

Sure, you may not lose water service -- but what if you lose sewer instead? What if the water becomes unfit to drink? What if they city floods and no water is fit to drink? What if, due to the results of the British Open, half the city decides to revolt and the Huns invade the (supposedly) richer half? What if the Zombie Flu suddenly becomes airborne and the only way to survive is to grab what you have and egress at a rapid rate of speed?

One doesn't need to be declared an Enemy Of The State to see why certain scenario planning is useful.

To get back on subject. I don't think all those that carry, prep and vice versa, I don't think all preppers carry. I carry, I prep, my preps are my business.

I think that a local disaster may merit some preparations, but a global meltdown would leave little opportunity for survival. I think many people picture some sort of Thunderdome scenario, and they will be the roaming survivors. The reality is even if there were survivors they would soon be killed off by the toxic waste, nuclear fall out and chemical fogs that would take over the earth. I'm not talking about nuclear war, but the fall of modern society. If the people that care for our nuclear power plants aren't around, BOOM. If the people that care for our petroleum plants aren't around, BOOM. The thousands of rail cars carrying toxic chemicals that are spread all around the planet are not cared for, BOOM. You wont be Mel Gibson driving around in a souped up Ford shooting at mutants.

bigdaddy1 said:

I think that a local disaster may merit some preparations, but a global meltdown would leave little opportunity for survival. I think many people picture some sort of Thunderdome scenario, and they will be the roaming survivors. The reality is even if there were survivors they would soon be killed off by the toxic waste, nuclear fall out and chemical fogs that would take over the earth. I'm not talking about nuclear war, but the fall of modern society. If the people that care for our nuclear power plants aren't around, BOOM. If the people that care for our petroleum plants aren't around, BOOM. The thousands of rail cars carrying toxic chemicals that are spread all around the planet are not cared for, BOOM. You wont be Mel Gibson driving around in a souped up Ford shooting at mutants.

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So let me get this straight. You're saying that if congress realized they're in over their head, that they can never pay the debt that the US has acquired. So they tell other countries that from now on the debt that they had is now gone. Some countries lost billions, others lost trillions. The countries want to protect the interest of their people if they're in for that much. So they invade. The mass panic of a foreign invasion sends most US citizens into a panic. Without money to pay our troops or even to buy them supplies the US is powerless against the invading armies or even to control their own citizens. That isn't too far fetched, I wouldn't say that it was likely to happen but it easily could happen.

So you're saying that everything just explodes if no one is around to take care of it? That is highly unlikely because most everything in the modern world is computer controlled. The nuclear power plants will probably still be cooled, by a computer, and probably has enough fail-safes that it won't ever blow up. As long as it was in good condition before people stopped taking care of it it would, at very least, last years before anything happens. Please explain to us all how petroleum plants and railway cars go "boom" just because no one is around. I was under the impression that random things don't just explode because no one is around to hear it.

09jisaac said:

So let me get this straight. You're saying that if congress realized they're in over their head, that they can never pay the debt that the US has acquired. So they tell other countries that from now on the debt that they had is now gone. Some countries lost billions, others lost trillions. The countries want to protect the interest of their people if they're in for that much. So they invade. The mass panic of a foreign invasion sends most US citizens into a panic. Without money to pay our troops or even to buy them supplies the US is powerless against the invading armies or even to control their own citizens. That isn't too far fetched, I wouldn't say that it was likely to happen but it easily could happen.

So you're saying that everything just explodes if no one is around to take care of it? That is highly unlikely because most everything in the modern world is computer controlled. The nuclear power plants will probably still be cooled, by a computer, and probably has enough fail-safes that it won't ever blow up. As long as it was in good condition before people stopped taking care of it it would, at very least, last years before anything happens. Please explain to us all how petroleum plants and railway cars go "boom" just because no one is around. I was under the impression that random things don't just explode because no one is around to hear it.

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I agree with allot of what you say, nuclear reactors should shutdown, but there is one problem. Over 100 locations in the U.S. have external cooling requirements for spent fuel rods in water and these pools do not have he rod shielding to prevent burn off like the reactor. If the power was to go down, then the water would turn to steam and boom, big steam fallout. If the power grid went down these facilities have enough fuel for about a week and then a week later we have a disaster the size of which makes nuclear war obsolete.

Your assumption is that the guy standing in the room monitoring the reactor or the pools where spent fuel rods are kept is going to say to himself "Gee the country if falling apart, there is violence in the street, I guess I will stay here because its important and I will just let my family die without me." Or you are assuming that our government says "Gee its falling apart, but we have all these dangerous nuclear facilities that must be manned, I will make the workers stay there to keep us safe, I will make the army guard them", problem is, the army guys are going to say "who is protecting my familiy? phuck this, I am out of here".

Darn. All those years of education, training and experience wasted. Look, operations and health physics all rolled into one and for free too! "Not even wrong." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

+1

Except it won't be fast. Most will stay, then as anxiety sets in some will leave, then the "guards" will become violent and try to force people. Then people will fight back and the guards will splinter. The army will join the fray and more people will die and then the army will fray. At that point, those wanting everyone to stay will be fighting those that want to leave will be fighting those that don't think people should be killed will be fighting those taking advantage for their own gain.

And then it will be a Charlie foxtrot with gangs of people roaming around fighting. LEO factions, military factions, armed citizens, predators, etc...

Meanwhile, no one will pay attention to nuclear reactors...

I gotta stop watching apocalypse movies lolol!

In my mind it's not just about end of the world scenarios, all the looting and violence during Katrina clearly shows bein prepared is a good idea. And the was the issue of the police and military taking lawfully owned firearms BY FORCE. It shows exactly what the "system" can and will do to the people. Anyone that still sits back and thinks the government will look out for them is dangerously naive.

gunns said:

Your assumption is that the guy standing in the room monitoring the reactor or the pools where spent fuel rods are kept is going to say to himself "Gee the country if falling apart, there is violence in the street, I guess I will stay here because its important and I will just let my family die without me." Or you are assuming that our government says "Gee its falling apart, but we have all these dangerous nuclear facilities that must be manned, I will make the workers stay there to keep us safe, I will make the army guard them", problem is, the army guys are going to say "who is protecting my familiy? phuck this, I am out of here".

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Where did I say that at? Where did I even imply that at? I thought I was clear when I said that in our modern world most everything is controlled by a computer. Not a guy/gal at a computer. Computers have no families and have no want to do something else. They will continue to work as long as they still have workable conditions. Being in a nuclear power plant they should still have power. So as long as their sensors are still functioning they can continue to run the plant. The only time you will get a problem is when you're dealing with something without sensors that you need a human to do. Like inspecting the structure to see if it is still in working condition.

09jisaac said:

Where did I say that at? Where did I even imply that at? I thought I was clear when I said that in our modern world most everything is controlled by a computer. Not a guy/gal at a computer. Computers have no families and have no want to do something else. They will continue to work as long as they still have workable conditions. Being in a nuclear power plant they should still have power. So as long as their sensors are still functioning they can continue to run the plant. The only time you will get a problem is when you're dealing with something without sensors that you need a human to do. Like inspecting the structure to see if it is still in working condition.

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Read this.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns...take-over-how-long-till-the-electricity-fails

gunns said:

Read this.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns...take-over-how-long-till-the-electricity-fails

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Ok, so a nuclear power plant could run for a couple of weeks without human intervention, but that is just sending electric. I am sure that as advance as a nuclear power plant is if it is making any electric it can keep itself from exploding. Just because a power plant cannot send electric to houses doesn't mean that it is in the dark too.

09jisaac said:

So let me get this straight. You're saying that if congress realized they're in over their head, that they can never pay the debt that the US has acquired. So they tell other countries that from now on the debt that they had is now gone. Some countries lost billions, others lost trillions. The countries want to protect the interest of their people if they're in for that much. So they invade. The mass panic of a foreign invasion sends most US citizens into a panic. Without money to pay our troops or even to buy them supplies the US is powerless against the invading armies or even to control their own citizens. That isn't too far fetched, I wouldn't say that it was likely to happen but it easily could happen.

So you're saying that everything just explodes if no one is around to take care of it? That is highly unlikely because most everything in the modern world is computer controlled. The nuclear power plants will probably still be cooled, by a computer, and probably has enough fail-safes that it won't ever blow up. As long as it was in good condition before people stopped taking care of it it would, at very least, last years before anything happens. Please explain to us all how petroleum plants and railway cars go "boom" just because no one is around. I was under the impression that random things don't just explode because no one is around to hear it.

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Keep in mind, I am not totally unprepared my self, no where close to some of those folks. I would most likely be one of those at the store trying to push people out of the way at the grocery store in trying to grab what I could. I have not watched the show but I have a pretty good idea of what some of them are like.

You are somewhat correct about the automated systems for a nuclear power plant, but they DO require constant care in order for them to operate correctly. They may last some time before any catastrophic failure but they WILL fail. Also depends on what event caused the problem, something like Japan and no automated system will help. Petroleum processing plants and most chemical plants are not as autonomous. They DO require regular daily maintenance and they will go BOOM in a short time if left unkept Don't put too much faith on technology. Railway cars filled with caustic fluids such as chlorine will leak. Leaking will cause rapid corrosion of the surrounding structure, and rapid corrosion will lead to catastrophic failure. A chlorine fog will then deteriorate the rest of the surrounding structures and it multiplies. Other chemical compounds will have their own unique issues, some very explosive.

Admiral Yammamoto was credited for saying "You can not invade mainland America, for there would be a riffle behind every blade of grass". With that in mind, I highly doubt any country would be foolish enough to attempt a ground invasion, even under the circumstance you describe. If we are to discuss fantasy, aliens could beam down from their mother-ship and attempt to take over the earth too, could happen.

All facetiousness aside, there is a real threat that could cause world wide chaos. A massive EMP blast could wipe out the grid, communications would fail and that could be a civilization crasher. Nuclear plants have shielding for such an occurrence (chem and petro plants not as much) so unless those workers are run off those plants should still function or at least not go BOOM. Once we have rebuilt our electronic infrastructure society would once again go to civilized expectations so it would not be a good idea to go shooting your neighbors because they stepped on your lawn.

09jisaac said:

Ok, so a nuclear power plant could run for a couple of weeks without human intervention, but that is just sending electric. I am sure that as advance as a nuclear power plant is if it is making any electric it can keep itself from exploding. Just because a power plant cannot send electric to houses doesn't mean that it is in the dark too.

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No. If there is no load on the generator(separated from the grid) then it must go through a shut-down process. The shut down will be automatic. There are fossil fuel type generators on the premises of nuke plants for back up power. If those generators run out of fuel then the cooling stops and well...

Lack of human intervention at a nuke plant will most certainly become catastrophic, particularly in the case of 100% load shed.

09jisaac said:

Where did I say that at? Where did I even imply that at? I thought I was clear when I said that in our modern world most everything is controlled by a computer. Not a guy/gal at a computer. Computers have no families and have no want to do something else. They will continue to work as long as they still have workable conditions. Being in a nuclear power plant they should still have power. So as long as their sensors are still functioning they can continue to run the plant. The only time you will get a problem is when you're dealing with something without sensors that you need a human to do. Like inspecting the structure to see if it is still in working condition.

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While the control systems at the types of facilities you mention have substantial capabilities, neither the DCS or PLC is 100% reliable. No amount of programming, testing or redundancy can remove all risk of failure on demand in a control system. I've been in oil and gas plants, power plants, specialty chemical plants, fertilizer plants, and a handful of other types, and I have yet to find a facility where 100% of the control loops are in automatic. In many/most, a substantial number of loops require constant operator attention. The next industrial accident is waiting to happen in a "computer" controlled plant near you.

Got the chance to view a few of the programs, good stuff :lol:

I liked the end where "experts" would grade the person on their plan. There was one guy who had a concern of the afore mentioned EMP, and he was buying shipping crates to bury in the desert for him and his family. I thought that was kind of a good idea, although I have seen someone that had done that to make an apartment complex above ground.

I personally believe that if a massive EMP did knock out electronics through out the world, that with in 6 to 8 months they would be getting the major systems back on line. The communications and power grid will be rebuilt and cities will start coming back on line shorty afterwords. No don't believe that everywhere will be up and running in 8 months but we wont be totally blind. There will be some that feel an EMP would be precursor to an invasion, but we can hope that there will still be some protected forms of communications that our military has that we may not know about. So in conclusion, things would be pretty hairy for a while, but they wouldnt be the end of time, Thunderdome and Mad Max world some of them picture.

Three days of food is recommended, but seven days of food and you're a suspected danger to the nation? Hell, forget the canned stuff in the pantry or anything else... even just the stack of frozen pizzas in my freezer is enough food for seven days.

I think it'd be harder to NOT have seven days worth of food in the house than to have it.

I have a pantry stocked with about 1 Month's worth of food. Am I prepping? Maybe. But am I "Expecting" a disaster? Perhaps, but I just like having lots of food on hand! Eating is fun!

And yes, I do have guns and ammo, but that's because I do target shooting as a "Hobby", I do have several "Defense Arms" though.

And last but not least, I have some Survival Supplies. They are also called "Camping Supplies"!!!

There you have it. Half Prepper, Half Regular Joe.

Preppers....there is a reason why NatGeo, no bastion of conservative principals, refers to the folks on that show as 'American Outliers'. While the show 'seems' innocent enough, they are actually doing only two things, one intentional and the other unintentional. Intentional: preppers are 'nut-jobs', not normal, irrational fear-mongering. Unintentional: there are far more nut-jobs than most folks, and the federal government thinks there are.

'Preppers' have been around a long time in America. But, until recently, last three years or so, preppers were considered just what NatGeo calls them, outliers. Preppers and prepping is no longer a 'thing' only 'folks' in Utah do.

Why a show like this, on this topic, now? Because this show would not have worked prior to the current president. The occasional documentary, maybe, but a weekly show? Nope, Obama makes this show work for NatGeo.

interesting that as the talk turned to Guards at Nuke plants forcing the workers to stay, and now In our Dictators new executive order he mentions being able to force people to work without compensation...