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I have seen the light, Republicans ARE EVIL...

marshaul

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I've said before I actually like BL92, even if I think her politics are looney at best.


I actually agree. Our discussions get more than a little "heated", and I tend to find her politics... offensive. But that's true for 99% of Americans. :lol:

I actually think we'd get along pretty damn well at a shooting range, for instance.

Drake isn't a bad person, he doesn't deserve to be disrespected for that. It's the liberalism I detest.

If people are gay, may they have all the happiness in the world. I hope they carry too.

Well said, my friend.
 
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marshaul

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So the government should only tax the poor, and middle-class, right?

No person deserves to have the products of his direct labor stolen.

I won't speak for others, but I'm the type of left-libertarian who is much more amenable to, for instance, corporate taxes, as the corporation is an affront against Right which could not exist without government. It's perfectly reasonable for government to charge for this "service", even if I think the service itself ought to be abolished.
 

DrakeZ07

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Lexington, Ky
Suddenly there are cricket sounds from the left....

Sorry for not responding to this insanity, BF took me out to subway, he knows exactly where to take me to make me relax. I <3 Subway.

Unlike your overly-sensitive friend, Drake, I am a big boy and am not afraid of mere speech, whatever the content. Thanks for asking, though.

I haven't met Mrs. Beretta before, and haven't spoke to her before, so I wouldn't exactly say that I'm a friend of hers. Now, as far as the speech goes... You know, Adolf Hitler primarily employed speeches which set off, and encouraged masses of people, citizens, party members, para-military, and military to use violence against Jews, Gypsies, Communists, Mentally Disabled, and LGBT peoples. But hey, it was just words, so it's not like it matters, right? T'was only the "oppressive" minority, and they deserved it all... RIGHT?! The terms "Deviant", "Immoral", and "Un-natural" were all used by the Nazi Leadership to send over three million LGBT people to concentration camps. Oh, but their just words, harmless right? Because "words will never hurt me", correct?

Oh my God, are you people all this overly dramatic?

This is the internet. Get over it.
1Drake interjected himself, a conscious adult, into a forum debate. He assumed the risk of getting his whiny pro-PC crap blown out of the water.
2That is quite different from a situation where a person randomly approaches you in public and calls you a name.
Which, I might add, is not grounds for any type of use of force, despite your obvious insinuation.
3Until and unless a person's actions (NOT MERE WORDS) lead to you reasonably fear for your safety, you better just leave it in the holster, cool your jets, and re-read the First Amendment.
Hey, guess what? Many thousands of Poles, shortly after being called derogatory names, were shot dead by Soviet and German soldiers during WW2. This doesn't give any Pole the right to shoot a Russian or German who calls him "Polack."
ETA: I'd also like to point out that while I wouldn't approach anyone I didn't know in public and randomly call him/her a derogatory name, if I were to do such a thing, I certainly wouldn't do so to one who was visibly armed...which makes me seriously doubt the veracity of your story.

1; I responded to a overt display of ignorance, intolerance, and unjustified bigotry directed towards the LGBT community. Ah, and I'm "whiny" because I called you out on your bigotry, and stood up for my own personal principles? Hey, Call me what you wish, but I refuse to cave in to the babble that your ilk spew out on a daily basis, yet run, and cower in fear behind the 1st amendment when your called out on it and start to take flak for it.
2; No, it's not.
3; You know, "MERE WORDS" can be considered hate speech, terroristic threatening, and may lead a person to believe imminent life threatening action is about to occur.
No, of course you wouldn't walk up to someone and use derogatory words against them while their carrying a sidearm for their protection. Most people with your staunch 'opinion', prefer defenseless targets.

I'm done with this (anti)Social Lounge, I should have stayed in the Kentucky Sub-forum. More respect, and common sense than I've ever seen in this section.
 
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ManInBlack

Regular Member
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Now, as far as the speech goes... You know, Adolf Hitler primarily employed speeches which set off, and encouraged masses of people, citizens, party members, para-military, and military to use violence against Jews, Gypsies, Communists, Mentally Disabled, and LGBT peoples. But hey, it was just words, so it's not like it matters, right? T'was only the "oppressive" minority, and they deserved it all... RIGHT?! The terms "Deviant", "Immoral", and "Un-natural" were all used by the Nazi Leadership to send over three million LGBT people to concentration camps. Oh, but their just words, harmless right? Because "words will never hurt me", correct?

The only person I have seen in this thread, and indeed on this forum, who has called Hitler's actions "right" is Beretta herself.

And yes, words alone won't hurt you. This is fact. Go cry about it if you disagree; it's a tough world out there.


1; I responded to a overt display of ignorance, intolerance, and unjustified bigotry directed towards the LGBT community. Ah, and I'm "whiny" because I called you out on your bigotry, and stood up for my own personal principles? Hey, Call me what you wish, but I refuse to cave in to the babble that your ilk spew out on a daily basis, yet run, and cower in fear behind the 1st amendment when your called out on it and start to take flak for it.

I have stayed in this thread. I haven't run for cover. And yes, I am protected by the First Amendment. If you don't like it, kindly get the hell out of America.

2; No, it's not.

Yes, it is. Words on the internet can never fall under the definition of fighting words, because there is no possibility of the other person (you) being moved to violence. You don't even know where to find me. Sorry, but you're clearly out of your league when it comes to legal matters.

3; You know, "MERE WORDS" can be considered hate speech,

Only in the socialist countries of western Europe and in Canada. Thank God we still have the First Amendment here. Why don't you try to go find a U.S. statute that bans "hate speech," by itself. You won't find it, although you might cry yourself to sleep in the process.

terroristic threatening

I'd like to see a statute or case law that says that mere hurtful name-calling rises to the level of a terrorist threat. I'll be waiting.

, and may lead a person to believe imminent life threatening action is about to occur.

Ok, but that's not a reasonable belief, which is what the law demands. Reasonable adults can be called a name and not automatically assume they are about to be attacked. Sensitive little people like you, however...well, that is apparently a different story.

No, of course you wouldn't walk up to someone and use derogatory words against them while their carrying a sidearm for their protection. Most people with your staunch 'opinion', prefer defenseless targets.

I said I wouldn't do it anyway. However, I was merely pointing out that Beretta's story of having some guy get up in her face while she was armed is likely false (which she has not disputed).

I, however, will say what I think to anyone, at any place, at any time. That is not the same as being aggressive or threatening. However, it is predicated on the belief that average adults are reasonable and can handle disagreement or even insults to their own beliefs without throwing a temper tantrum. I now know never to have a real-life argument with you because you will most likely break down sobbing, throwing a tantrum on the floor, while flinging your feces about.

I'm done with this (anti)Social Lounge, I should have stayed in the Kentucky Sub-forum. More respect, and common sense than I've ever seen in this section.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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The only person I have seen in this thread, and indeed on this forum, who has called Hitler's actions "right" is Beretta herself.

[snip]

You seem to be missing some points here in my posts. I would help you out but... As I stated previously, there are others on this forum that have much better quotes of me in their signature.
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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[snip]
I, however, will say what I think to anyone, at any place, at any time. That is not the same as being aggressive or threatening. However, it is predicated on the belief that average adults are reasonable and can handle disagreement or even insults to their own beliefs without throwing a temper tantrum. I now know never to have a real-life argument with you because you will most likely break down sobbing, throwing a tantrum on the floor, while flinging your feces about.
[snip].

I didn't state that mere words were a reasonable justification for drawing your firearm. I stated words, and posture. Words are a prelude to physical action. If a person is approaching you, calling you a fa**ot, both of those can reasonably lead the individual to believe that they are in imminent threat.

Most attacks against Gays have first derogatory terms, the individual approaching the Gay person, then violence.

You may disagree but I encourage you to consider that your interpretation of the situation where you are approaching someone making derogatory statements is not going to be the same as the individual being approached. If you were at an OC BBQ and walked up to someone using derogatory language (Homosexual or Heterosexual), well, I wouldn't want to be in the vicinity. The individual would likely interpret it as a threat to their person by the statements you are making, and your proximity to them.

I am just a crazy Liberal, don't take my word for it.

I encourage you to go to the link below that I have provided.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?99298-quot-An-armed-society-is-a-peacful-one-quot&p=1721036#post1721036
 
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ManInBlack

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SW Idaho
I didn't state that mere words were a reasonable justification for drawing your firearm. I stated words, and posture. Words are a prelude to physical action.

All I want is a cite for this, in either statute or case law. If I am calling you a name and leaning towards you, that is not a justification to draw a firearm. You said

ManInBlack said:
That is quite different from a situation where a person randomly approaches you in public and calls you a name.

Which, I might add, is not grounds for any type of use of force, despite your obvious insinuation.
Beretta92FSLady said:
Actually, in the State of Washington, it is. Words, and posture are a prelude to action.

The Forum Rules demand that you provide a cite.

Your response should only be one line, and it should contain either a relevant RCW or case. Stay focused. All I am looking for is a cite, not a fantasy scenario of a big bad homophobe approaching you at an OC event...
 

Beretta92FSLady

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All I want is a cite for this, in either statute or case law. If I am calling you a name and leaning towards you, that is not a justification to draw a firearm. You said




The Forum Rules demand that you provide a cite.

Your response should only be one line, and it should contain either a relevant RCW or case. Stay focused. All I am looking for is a cite, not a fantasy scenario of a big bad homophobe approaching you at an OC event...

I provided the cite for you. Here it is again, this is all I need to provide:

RCW 9A.16.050

Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.
Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.
There is nothing more to provide than what I have already offered previously. Take the cite however you wish but in Washington state all the individual must have is a reasonable belief that they are in imminent danger of death or injury. Not all States are the same but Washington state is pretty liberal regarding Reasonable Belief. The person doesn't even have to be armed, they merely have to be capable.

Also, if you tell the person you are armed, and the person continues in a verbal and aggressive manner, you can shoot the person. I didn't make the rules, I just follow them.
 
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ManInBlack

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I provided the cite for you. Here it is again, this is all I need to provide:


There is nothing more to provide than what I have already offered previously. Take the cite however you wish but in Washington state all the individual must have is a reasonable belief that they are in imminent danger of death or injury. Not all States are the same but Washington state is pretty liberal regarding Reasonable Belief. The person doesn't even have to be armed, they merely have to be capable.

Also, if you tell the person you are armed, and the person continues in a verbal and aggressive manner, you can shoot the person. I didn't make the rules, I just follow them.

A reasonable person wouldn't equate being called a name with an imminent threat. That is what young children do.

Your cite has nothing to back up your statement that

ManInBlack said:
That is quite different from a situation where a person randomly approaches you in public and calls you a name.

Which, I might add, is not grounds for any type of use of force, despite your obvious insinuation.


Beretta92FSLady said:
Actually, in the State of Washington, it is. Words, and posture are a prelude to action.


Your statement, taken in context, is that being called a name is grounds for use of force in Washington. You also made a specific claim that "Words, and posture are a prelude to action."

You have substantiated neither.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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A reasonable person wouldn't equate being called a name with an imminent threat. That is what young children do.

Your cite has nothing to back up your statement that

I am not sure if you keep missing my second, and third point. The Slayer merely has to articulate reasonably that they believed they were in danger. The third point is Posture. That is all you need.




Your statement, taken in context, is that being called a name is grounds for use of force in Washington. You also made a specific claim that "Words, and posture are a prelude to action."

You have substantiated neither.

You are not following my posts. I stated name calling, and posture; you even provided the quote. A person can reasonably deduce that words, and posture are a prelude to action.

You see, I don't have to convince you, all I have to do is convince a jury that it was a reasonable perception of the situation.

You stating that it is not Reasonable is based on the premise that you are Reasonable. Considering your posts in this matter, and the matter of homosexuals, you would not be placed on the jury because you wouldn't be considered reasonable, I could be wrong...you are from Idaho.
 
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ManInBlack

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You see, I don't have to convince you, all I have to do is convince a jury that it was a reasonable perception of the situation.

I can't wait to read about you going to prison because you shot someone who called you a mean name and had a "posture" you didn't like...yep, that will be a good one...
 

ManInBlack

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I would rather be judged by twelve then carried by six.

Except, of course, the fact that in 99.99999% of instances where people are called mean, "anti-gay" names, no one is physically injured.

I wonder if I can get away with shooting a leftist nut for calling me a fascist, because, after all, I'm sure that, at some point in modern history, someone, somewhere was called a fascist shortly before being killed by a socialist/communist...

What I think this whole thread really goes to show is that you and Drake are both insufferable, whiny, dramatic, overly-sensitive, attention-seeking people. I will say that it doesn't come from your preferences, as I know several gays who are reasonable adults, able to participate in the normal adult world without constantly ginning up fears of statistically extremely-rare straight-on-gay violence.
 
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marshaul

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You're both enjoying this, aren't you?

Far be it for me to point out that, in general, words are not sufficient cause for self-defense, but that words may be part and parcel of a set of behaviors which leaves a reasonable person in fear for their life.

For instance, there is a difference between:

"You beat me at chess? ***. I'm gonna kill you!"

And (rapidly closing distance to a stranger):

"******! I'M GOING TO KILL YOU!"

Furthermore, I have no evidence, but I suspect that a large majority of gay-bashings are begun with some nasty words.
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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Except, of course, the fact that in 99.99999% of instances where people are called mean, "anti-gay" names, no one is physically injured.

Cite please. The forum rules demand it.

I wonder if I can get away with shooting a leftist nut for calling me a fascist, because, after all, I'm sure that, at some point in modern history, someone, somewhere was called a fascist shortly before being killed by a socialist/communist...

What I think this whole thread really goes to show is that you and Drake are both insufferable, whiny, dramatic, overly-sensitive, attention-seeking people. I will say that it doesn't come from your preferences, as I know several gays who are reasonable adults, able to participate in the normal adult world without constantly ginning up fears of statistically extremely-rare straight-on-gay violence.

You seem to be rather sensitive. A sign of sensitivity is the use of derogatory terms; I have used none in this whole discussion. You on the other hand have used plenty.

Oh, I would also like a cite for your assertion that heterosexual on homosexual violence is rare. Thank you.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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You're both enjoying this, aren't you?

Far be it for me to point out that, in general, words are not sufficient cause for self-defense, but that words may be part and parcel of a set of behaviors which leaves a reasonable person in fear for their life.

For instance, there is a difference between:

"You beat me at chess? ***. I'm gonna kill you!"

And (rapidly closing distance to a stranger):

"******! I'M GOING TO KILL YOU!"

Agreed.

I should point out that no person stated that words were the sole ground for justified self-defense.
 
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PrayingForWar

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MODS:

Feel free to close this ******' trainwreck.

I wish that having an idiot on ignore would prevent them from posting on your threads.
 
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Citizen

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SNIP I actually think we'd get along pretty damn well at a shooting range, for instance.

I find her politics more than just offensive.

While I might like to get along with her; I would never, ever forget that she is very willing to have her proxies point guns at me should I not submit to their coercion.
 
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