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Thread: GFSZ Question

  1. #1
    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    GFSZ Question

    Ok, had a conversation with someone yesterday who recently took her WI CCL requirement course (not WCI, sorry for any confusion), and she stated that her instructor told the class that you could carry (CC/OC) a firearm in your car in a school parking lot, as long as you don't exit the vehicle with the firearm, due to parking lots being exempt from posting.

    Now, that's completely backwards from how I read and understood the law. The way I understood it, as long as the parking lot is within school property (grounds) the pistol must be unloaded/encased before entrance to that area.

    I have to admit I'm getting confused at this point and I'd really hate to see someone get hung up on this. If I'm mistaken I'll gladly eat my words, specially since it'll make it so much easier for me to drop off/pick up
    my kids at/from school if I don't have to pull over and unload/encase before driving onto the property.

    I'm getting my reasoning from the CCW FAQ, which is all I could find quickly. I generally hate FAQs, but at least it cites Wis. Stat. 948.605(2)(b)1r

    So if someone could clarify if I'm mistaken or correct I'd really appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    Last edited by Wolf1477; 03-15-2012 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Clarification and a spelling whoops.

  2. #2
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf1477 View Post
    Ok, had a conversation with someone yesterday who recently took her WI carry course, and she stated that her instructor told the class that you could carry (CC/OC) a firearm in your car in a school parking lot, as long as you don't exit the vehicle with the firearm, due to parking lots being exempt from posting.

    Now, that's completely backwards from how I read and understood the law. The way I understood it, as long as the parking lot is within school property (grounds) the pistol must be unloaded/encased before entrance to that area.

    I have to admit I'm getting confused at this point and I'd really hate to see someone get hung up on this. If I'm mistaken I'll gladly eat my words, specially since it'll make it so much easier for me to drop off/pick up
    my kids at/from school if I don't have to pull over and unload/encase before driving onto the property.

    I'm getting my reasoning from the CCW FAQ, which is all I could find quickly. I generally hate FAQs, but at least it cites Wis. Stat. 948.605(2)(b)1r

    So if someone could clarify if I'm mistaken or correct I'd really appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    Class I felony. Permanent loss of voting rights.

    The applicable law is very clear. 948.605:

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...atutes/948/605

    Specifically 948.605(2)(a)Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.

    948.605(2)(b) give exceptions. The only exception that would apply to a CCL holder normally, whether in a vehicle or not), is 948.605(2)(b)1r Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

    If the car is on the grounds, the person is on the grounds.

    So... if you want to have a firearm on school grounds, it needs to be according to 948.605(2)(b)1m A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).

    which points to Federal Law which says:

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the
    possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school
    grounds;
    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved
    by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a
    contract entered into between a school in the
    school zone and the individual or an employer
    of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in
    his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an
    individual while traversing school premises for
    the purpose of gaining access to public or private
    lands open to hunting, if the entry on
    school premises is authorized by school authorities.
    So.... as you can see, you have to follow a trail but the trail shows that having a loaded firearm on school property is usually a felony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Class I felony. Permanent loss of voting rights.

    The applicable law is very clear. 948.605:

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...atutes/948/605

    Specifically 948.605(2)(a)Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.

    948.605(2)(b) give exceptions. The only exception that would apply to a CCL holder normally, whether in a vehicle or not), is 948.605(2)(b)1r Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

    If the car is on the grounds, the person is on the grounds.

    So... if you want to have a firearm on school grounds, it needs to be according to 948.605(2)(b)1m A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).

    which points to Federal Law which says:



    So.... as you can see, you have to follow a trail but the trail shows that having a loaded firearm on school property is usually a felony.

    It seems to me that this very same statement has appeared here before. Then it also said that it came from an CCL "instructor".
    I can't help but wonder if WAVE is behind this.

    JJC

  4. #4
    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Class I felony. Permanent loss of voting rights.

    The applicable law is very clear. 948.605:

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...atutes/948/605

    Specifically 948.605(2)(a)Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.

    948.605(2)(b) give exceptions. The only exception that would apply to a CCL holder normally, whether in a vehicle or not), is 948.605(2)(b)1r Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

    If the car is on the grounds, the person is on the grounds.

    So... if you want to have a firearm on school grounds, it needs to be according to 948.605(2)(b)1m A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).

    which points to Federal Law which says:



    So.... as you can see, you have to follow a trail but the trail shows that having a loaded firearm on school property is usually a felony.
    Ok, thanks Paul. That's what I was thinking, but, only being armed by a FAQ I didn't want to push it too far and end up looking like a bigger ass than I usually do.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    It seems to me that this very same statement has appeared here before. Then it also said that it came from an CCL "instructor".
    I can't help but wonder if WAVE is behind this.

    JJC
    'scuse me? I'll give you an opportunity to explain this comment before I reply. All I can say is I hope you're not accusing me of being part of WAVE, as it appears you are.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I brought this up a few times. The law is in contradiction of itself. One cite defines a dangerous weapon (among other things) as a firearm. Then in the GFSZ b/s they separate dangerous weapons and call firearms its own entity. I am embarrassed to say I was going to write JB and ask him to give an official opinion but I simply haven't yet. I will try to get it out as soon as possible.
    Last edited by bigdaddy1; 03-15-2012 at 02:58 PM.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  7. #7
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I brought this up a few times. The law is in contradiction of itself. One cite defines a dangerous weapon (among other things) as a firearm. Then in the GFSZ b/s they separate dangerous weapons and call firearms its own entity. I am embarrassed to say I was going to write JB and ask him to give an official opinion but I simply haven't yet. I will try to get it out as soon as possible.
    Please provide a citation to the contradiction.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I brought this up a few times. The law is in contradiction of itself. One cite defines a dangerous weapon (among other things) as a firearm. Then in the GFSZ b/s they separate dangerous weapons and call firearms its own entity. I am embarrassed to say I was going to write JB and ask him to give an official opinion but I simply haven't yet. I will try to get it out as soon as possible.
    Unless you're a legislator or some sort of state or local government official, the attorney general won't issue a formal opinion based on your request. By law the AG is restricted to issuing such opinions only at the request of certain officials, not the general public. If you get a reply it might be something telling you just that. Or, if you're lucky you might get an informal opinion from an Assistant AG, but I wouldn't hope for anything beyond that.
    A. Gold

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf1477
    I hope you're not accusing me of being part of WAVE, as it appears you are.
    I read it as the person spreading false info (the "instructor" who is telling her/his students to commit felonies) might be a plant by the antis.
    Until the federal & WI "GF"SZ laws are done away with (for the children, of course) the vast majority of people have to park on the public street & leave their ppd in the car. Just hope that there's parking near the school & someone to make sure the ppd stays in the car instead of leaving the area with some urban property relocators.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
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    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I read it as the person spreading false info (the "instructor" who is telling her/his students to commit felonies) might be a plant by the antis.
    Until the federal & WI "GF"SZ laws are done away with (for the children, of course) the vast majority of people have to park on the public street & leave their ppd in the car. Just hope that there's parking near the school & someone to make sure the ppd stays in the car instead of leaving the area with some urban property relocators.

    LoL "Urban property relocators"! Love it.

    No, I can guarantee neither the instructor nor the student are WAVE plants.

    I'm related to one and a friend of the other so I'm playing the non pertinent details close to the chest so nobody is either publicly humiliated or gets in trouble for making an honest mistake, I just want to make sure I have the facts straight before I say anything to them so I sound more clinical than argumentative. And it never hurts to have the facts/cites to back me up rather than sounding like "I know better than you now stop telling people this because I say so!"
    Last edited by Wolf1477; 03-15-2012 at 03:48 PM.

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    clarification? - Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    urban property relocators.
    Must be related to the Property Re-distribution Specialist .

    Am I correct that Wisconsin 948.605(2)(b)1r does not prohibit a Licensee from the car drop-off scenario, however, the federal GFSZ laws do prohibit? Or is there another WI Statute that covers it? I think I'm missing something here.

    948.605  Gun-free school zones. 948.605(1) (1)  Definitions. In this section:
    948.605(1)(a) (a) "Encased" has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
    948.605(1)(ac) (ac) "Firearm" does not include any beebee or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
    948.605(1)(am) (am) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
    948.605(1)(b) (b) "School" has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    948.605(1)(c) (c) "School zone" means any of the following:
    948.605(1)(c)1. 1. In or on the grounds of a school.
    948.605(1)(c)2. 2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
    948.605(2) (2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
    948.605(2)(a)(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
    948.605(2)(b) (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
    948.605(2)(b)1m. 1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
    948.605(2)(b)1r. 1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
    948.605(2)(b)2m. 2m. A state-certified commission warden acting in his or her official capacity.
    948.605(2)(b)3. 3. That is not loaded and is:
    948.605(2)(b)3.a. a. Encased; or
    948.605(2)(b)3.b. b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    948.605(2)(b)3m. 3m. A person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest under s. 120.13 (38).


    Emphasis is mine.

    Rob

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helorob View Post
    Must be related to the Property Re-distribution Specialist .

    Am I correct that Wisconsin 948.605(2)(b)1r does not prohibit a Licensee from the car drop-off scenario, however, the federal GFSZ laws do prohibit? Or is there another WI Statute that covers it? I think I'm missing something here.

    948.605  Gun-free school zones. 948.605(1) (1)  Definitions. In this section:
    948.605(1)(a) (a) "Encased" has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
    948.605(1)(ac) (ac) "Firearm" does not include any beebee or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
    948.605(1)(am) (am) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
    948.605(1)(b) (b) "School" has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    948.605(1)(c) (c) "School zone" means any of the following:
    948.605(1)(c)1. 1. In or on the grounds of a school.
    948.605(1)(c)2. 2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
    948.605(2) (2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
    948.605(2)(a)(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
    948.605(2)(b) (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
    948.605(2)(b)1m. 1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
    948.605(2)(b)1r. 1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
    948.605(2)(b)2m. 2m. A state-certified commission warden acting in his or her official capacity.
    948.605(2)(b)3. 3. That is not loaded and is:
    948.605(2)(b)3.a. a. Encased; or
    948.605(2)(b)3.b. b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    948.605(2)(b)3m. 3m. A person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest under s. 120.13 (38).


    Emphasis is mine.

    Rob
    The problem is that 948.605(2)(b) is an exception. 1r has an exception to the exception so it is a double negative. So, while CCL holders fit half the exception of 1r, we don't the other half because it says 'except for on the school grounds'.

    The proper interpretation of 1r is that CCL holders are exempted from the 1000' forfeiture but not the school grounds felony.
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 03-15-2012 at 04:34 PM.

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    Got it!

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    The problem is that 948.605(2)(b) is an exception. 1r has an exception to the exception so it is a double negative. So, while CCL holders fit half the exception of 1r, we don't the other half because it says 'except for on the school grounds'.

    The proper interpretation of 1r is that CCL holders are exempted from the 1000' forfeiture but not the school grounds felony.
    So the way to read this is that there are the listed exceptions, EXCEPT for the 1r Licensee. It is an attemp to exclude the Licensee from the exceptions. WOW, no wonder we have problems! I'm not sure I could find a more confusing way to say it.
    The real question is what did they intend to do? Hhmmf , I got a feeling it wasn't a mistake.

    Thanks for the help,

    Rob

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helorob View Post
    So the way to read this is that there are the listed exceptions, EXCEPT for the 1r Licensee. It is an attemp to exclude the Licensee from the exceptions. WOW, no wonder we have problems! I'm not sure I could find a more confusing way to say it.
    The real question is what did they intend to do? Hhmmf , I got a feeling it wasn't a mistake.

    Thanks for the help,

    Rob
    Actually it is worse than that. The 1st half of 1r excepts us (CCL holders) from the WHOLE GFSZ, then the 2nd part of 1r takes back the actual school grounds and buildings.

  15. #15
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Please provide a citation to the contradiction.


    Chapter 939 939.22(10)
    (10) "Dangerous weapon" means any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or ...

    Then;

     A person who uses a weapon solely for school sanctioned purposes. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(a).
     A person who engages in military activities sponsored by the federal or state government when acting in the discharge of his or her official duties. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(b).
     A person who Is a law enforcement officer or state certified commission warden acting in the discharge of his or her official duties. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(c).
     A person who is participating in a convocation authorized by school authorities in which weapons of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(d).
     A person who drives a motor vehicle in which a dangerous weapon is located onto school premises for school sanctioned purposes or for the purpose of delivering or picking up passengers or property if the weapon is not removed from the vehicle or used in any way. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(e).
     A person who possesses or uses a bow and arrow or knife while legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(f).

    Looks like a pretty clear contradiction to me.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  16. #16
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    Chapter 939 939.22(10)
    (10) "Dangerous weapon" means any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or ...

    Then;

     A person who uses a weapon solely for school sanctioned purposes. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(a).
     A person who engages in military activities sponsored by the federal or state government when acting in the discharge of his or her official duties. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(b).
     A person who Is a law enforcement officer or state certified commission warden acting in the discharge of his or her official duties. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(c).
     A person who is participating in a convocation authorized by school authorities in which weapons of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(d).
     A person who drives a motor vehicle in which a dangerous weapon is located onto school premises for school sanctioned purposes or for the purpose of delivering or picking up passengers or property if the weapon is not removed from the vehicle or used in any way. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(e).
     A person who possesses or uses a bow and arrow or knife while legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest. Wis. Stat. § 948.61(3)(f).

    Looks like a pretty clear contradiction to me.
    I understand what you are saying, however, the heading for 948.61 is "Dangerous weapons other than firearms on school premises." so it doesn't contradict. Firearms are covered by 948.605.

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    A conundrum only the courts can resolve. Until then I tend to side with PPF that it is better to err on the side of caution. However, my 2c is this:

    (2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
    948.605(2)(a)(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.

    948.605(2)(b) (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:

    948.605(2)(b)1m. 1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).

    948.605(2)(b)1r. 1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

    948.605(2)(b)2m. 2m. A state-certified commission warden acting in his or her official capacity.

    948.605(2)(b)3. 3. That is not loaded and is:

    948.605(2)(b)3.a. a. Encased; or

    948.605(2)(b)3.b. b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    948.605(2)(b)3m. 3m. A person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest under s. 120.13 (38).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think legislative intent comes into play. 948.605(2)(b)1r is exception to the restriction placed by 948.605(2)(a)(a). Paragraph 948.605(2)(b)1r applies to only those persons that hold a concealed carry license (resident or valid non-resident). Paragraph 948.605(2)(b)1r was specifically generated as part of ACT35. If the legislative intent was to not allow entry onto school property by licensed individuals there would be no need for 948.605(2)(b)1r.

    I agree, however, that because of the severe risk of a feloney conviction it is best to wait and see how the courts respond or we get legislative clarification or an AG opinion. Better yet constitutional carry.

    I am not a lawyer so none of what I post is legal advice.

  18. #18
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    A conundrum only the courts can resolve. Until then I tend to side with PPF that it is better to err on the side of caution. However, my 2c is this:

    (2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
    948.605(2)(a)(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.

    948.605(2)(b) (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:

    948.605(2)(b)1m. 1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).

    948.605(2)(b)1r. 1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

    948.605(2)(b)2m. 2m. A state-certified commission warden acting in his or her official capacity.

    948.605(2)(b)3. 3. That is not loaded and is:

    948.605(2)(b)3.a. a. Encased; or

    948.605(2)(b)3.b. b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    948.605(2)(b)3m. 3m. A person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest under s. 120.13 (38).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think legislative intent comes into play. 948.605(2)(b)1r is exception to the restriction placed by 948.605(2)(a)(a). Paragraph 948.605(2)(b)1r applies to only those persons that hold a concealed carry license (resident or valid non-resident). Paragraph 948.605(2)(b)1r was specifically generated as part of ACT35. If the legislative intent was to not allow entry onto school property by licensed individuals there would be no need for 948.605(2)(b)1r.

    I agree, however, that because of the severe risk of a feloney conviction it is best to wait and see how the courts respond or we get legislative clarification or an AG opinion. Better yet constitutional carry.

    I am not a lawyer so none of what I post is legal advice.
    But the DOJ has already clarified with their FAQ, right?

    Page 44 http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...q-20111020.pdf

    A person who is a CCW licensee or out-of-state CCW licensee may possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, but not in or on school grounds. Wis. Stat. § 948.605(2)(b)1r.
    While the DOJ FAQ does have some other issues, it seems to match the law in this case.

  19. #19
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by me
    urban property relocators
    Quote Originally Posted by Helorob
    Must be related to the Property Re-distribution Specialist .
    I like your version better.
    Running with that...:
    Property Acquisition and Redistribution Specialist
    Clandestine Property Acquisition and Redistribution Specialist
    Freelance Property Acquisition and Redistribution Specialist
    Urban Property Acquisition and Resale Specialist [That sounds almost legit.]

  20. #20
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    I see your side of the interpretation also PPF. Which I believe is that the exception (948.605(2)(b)1r) to paragraph (a) acts to remove the school grounds as an exception. Sure is a poor way for them to say it.
    As I said. It is a conumdrum. Just another example of the LRB keeping lawyers employed. We need a legislative clean up of Act 35. Maybe after June and all the recall crap is over we will see some more activity.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 03-16-2012 at 07:19 AM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    This weekend I will send a few emails and letters out. Even if JB wont generate an opinion for me, I will try to get my representatives to make it an official request.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  22. #22
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    Aha! now I see. Actually very clear (sarcasm).

    948.605(2)(a)(a) list restrictions to carrry of a loaded firearm on school property and in the 1000 foot perimeter surrounding school property.
    948.605(2)(b)(b) Excepts certain conditions to the restrictions of 948.605(2)(a)(a).
    948.605(2)(b)1r.1r Makes exception to the exceptions paragraph 948.605(2)(b)(b) to the restrictions contained in 948.605(2)(a)(a).

    So we have exception to the exceptions of the restriction.
    What a bunch of anti-gun LRB double-talk. Almost amounts to statute entrapment.

    Bottom line: Carry of a firearm on school property is still restricted and subject to a felony penalty. Visible or concealed carry of a loaded firearm in the 1000foot perimeter is allowed by a licensee or a non-resident licensee. Open carry of a firearm by a non-licensed individual or non-licensed non-resident in the 1000foot perimeter is still restricted and subject to a misdemeanor penalty.

    What a bunch of garbage.

    Now we interject 167.31 which allows carry of a loaded firearm in a vehicle and whether or not that vehicle can be considered "private property' as implied by the "castle doctrine" and as implied by Act 35 in regards to "posted" property and other restricted property. Act 35 states that the restrictions to carrying a firearm in restricted premisis' does not apply to parking lots of those premisis'. Can a school drop zone be considered a "temporary" parking lot?

    Some people in Madison are drinking "funny" water.

  23. #23
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    WisconsinLegislature.Notification@legis.state.wi.u s
    5:57 AM (2 hours ago)

    to dale


    You requested to be notified of the following legislative activities:

    Subject: concealed carry
    The date/time of a public hearing regarding topic "Emergency Rule 1115" scheduled by Joint Committee for Review of Administrative Rules was changed. Date/time: The meeting time was changed from 3/20/2012 10:00 AM to 3/20/2012 11:00 AM. Location: 417 North (GAR Hall).
    Topic description: Relating to the recognition by Wisconsin of concealed carry licenses issued by other states.

    Subject: firearms
    AB-717 was introduced by Representative Kleefisch on March 15, 2012
    Bill History: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2011/data/AB717hst.html
    Relating to: law enforcement officers who are on duty, off-duty law enforcement officers, and former...
    AB-717 was referred to committee on Criminal Justice and Corrections in the Assembly on March 15, 2012
    Bill History: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2011/data/AB717hst.html
    Relating to: law enforcement officers who are on duty, off-duty law enforcement officers, and former...

    http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011...roposals/ab717

  24. #24
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    Wish I could live somewhere were I didn't have to worry about ruining my future just because I want to put a firearm on my person or in my vehicle the way "I" want to do it.

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