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A reason to carry in Virginia beach

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
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10,444
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Valhalla
I am not feeling very charitable this afternoon.

It's not a reason to carry - you do not need one.

It's a reason to use it. If not her, then the neighbor.*

stay safe.


* Yeah, I know - not enough info to know for sure if it would be seen as excusable should the CA decide to press the issue.
 
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sparkman2

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
132
Location
Hampton Roads, Virginia
I am not feeling very charitable this afternoon.

It's not a reason to carry - you do not need one.

It's a reason to use it. If not her, then the neighbor.*

stay safe.


* Yeah, I know - not enough info to know for sure if it would be seen as excusable should the CA decide to press the issue.


It bothers me because I walk those very same streets at night with the wife and this kid is still out there. This kid was lucky that the victim didn't ventilate his rear end on the spot. But then we would hear that "oh he was such a good kid, never did anything wrong, he didn't deserve this" and now the victim is the criminal.
 

Riana

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Dec 23, 2008
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Fairfax County, VA
Thats a little too close for comfort! Thanks for posting, this is the first i've heard about this. Sad thing is that the victim could not have been armed legally walking her kids to school and all.

Wait... why could she not have been armed? I used to walk my son to school - right up to the school's property line. Perfectly legal, as long as I never set foot on school property. Even in third grade, I could make sure he arrived at the door from the property line.

And I have little doubt that if she had been OCing, he'd've walked on - it would have taken the starch right out of his sails.
 
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MagiK_SacK

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VA Beach, VA
I wouldn't have even thought twice about drawing and pulling the trigger. I don't care who it was, or why they targeted any woman no matter what the circumstances. Rape is wrong no matter the circumstances. It's just too bad she wasn't carrying. So long as somebody has a CHP and isn't imprinting I see no reason for CC under the circumstances(walking your kids to school). I mean walking to the front doors and then turning away I don't see the problem with that. If they were going inside for a considerable amount of time they might think twice but just dropping off and picking up, I don't see a problem with it. I personally don't walk my kid to school but thanks to having a CHP and the ability to leave my gun secured in my car. I choose to go home first to arm up before driving to go get the kid. Strictly because of reasons like this. I really hate seeing stuff like this because it just angers me. :mad: People say guns are bad because of stories like this, but had she had a gun as well this might not have ever happened. :banghead: Not to mention this is right around the corner from where I live. If my LPO and I aren't riding the motorcycles we car pool and he lives off of Marvell Rd which if you look at the map is just on the other side of where that happened.
 
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Glockster

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Houston
I have my CHP, and so long as I am not imprinting I see no reason for it to be a problem. I am walking to the front doors and then turning away. If i was going inside for a considerable amount of time I might think twice but just dropping off and picking up, I do carry.

Your CHP does not exempt you from doing other than "(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school." So the following still applies:

§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.
B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.
 

Glockster

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Houston
Wait... why could she not have been armed? I used to walk my son to school - right up to the school's property line. Perfectly legal, as long as I never set foot on school property. Even in third grade, I could make sure he arrived at the door from the property line.

And I have little doubt that if she had been OCing, he'd've walked on - it would have taken the starch right out of his sails.

I'm not so sure about "perfectly legal, as long as I never set foot on school property" as the Gun Free School Zones Act prohibits carrying "within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school."

I'm not saying that I think that would be otherwise enforced (assuming you weren't doing anything else wrong), but it seems that it is not "perfectly legal." Not enforced or otherwise ignored seems to be different than "perfectly legal."
 

Glockster

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Joined
Dec 24, 2010
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Houston
I am not feeling very charitable this afternoon.

It's not a reason to carry - you do not need one.

It's a reason to use it. If not her, then the neighbor.*

stay safe.

This was also my first and second reaction to the OP. I OC because I can and don't need any other reason to do so. Deciding when to use it is another matter altogether.
 

peter nap

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Oct 16, 2007
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Valhalla
Your CHP does not exempt you from doing other than "(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school." So the following still applies:

.

That's absolutely correct!

CHP or not, you would be no more legal than the Gang Member who sticks his gun in his backpack and heads to school.
 

peter nap

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I'm not so sure about "perfectly legal, as long as I never set foot on school property" as the Gun Free School Zones Act prohibits carrying "within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school."

I'm not saying that I think that would be otherwise enforced (assuming you weren't doing anything else wrong), but it seems that it is not "perfectly legal." Not enforced or otherwise ignored seems to be different than "perfectly legal."

There is considerable question as to the legaliy of the GFZ. It was tossed by the Courts once then slightly reworded and has been unenforced as a stand alone crime since...but you're right, it is questionable. It's also ignored by many of us.

Now in Riana's case, it would be perfectly legal because the GFZ recognizes CHP holders which she is.
 

MagiK_SacK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
257
Location
VA Beach, VA
Your CHP does not exempt you from doing other than "(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school." So the following still applies:

§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.
B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

Yes, I completely understand this. Hince why I avoid walking to drop off/pick up my son. I tend to always drive just for the reason stated above. That way I am protected by law to legally have my gun.
 

SouthernBoy

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May 12, 2007
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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
Thats a little too close for comfort! Thanks for posting, this is the first i've heard about this. Sad thing is that the victim could not have been armed legally walking her kids to school and all.

Yes she could have as long as she did not go onto school property and if she had a Virginia CHP. You don't have to have your CHP on your person when within a school zone and when carrying openly... you only have to have been issued one. (U.S. Code 18,922)

(strangely, the U.S. Code mentioned above says nothing about a permit to carry a firearm)
 

SouthernBoy

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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
I'm not so sure about "perfectly legal, as long as I never set foot on school property" as the Gun Free School Zones Act prohibits carrying "within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school."

I'm not saying that I think that would be otherwise enforced (assuming you weren't doing anything else wrong), but it seems that it is not "perfectly legal." Not enforced or otherwise ignored seems to be different than "perfectly legal."

There are exceptions to this. See my post #13 for this. You can walk right by a school with your sidearm openly displayed or concealed as long as you, 1) do not go onto school property and 2) have been issued a "license" (we call them permits here) to "possess" said firearm (no such thing in Virginia).
 

Glockster

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Now in Riana's case, it would be perfectly legal because the GFZ recognizes CHP holders which she is.

I've heard that mentioned before but I was looking through the complete text of GFZA this morning and didn't see anything there that provided exemptions for CHP holders. Is that recognition provided somewhere else? (would appreciate it if you could point me to it so that I will know what the exemption is)
 

Glockster

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Yes, I completely understand this. Hince why I avoid walking to drop off/pick up my son. I tend to always drive just for the reason stated above. That way I am protected by law to legally have my gun.

Did I misunderstand your above post where you said that you carried while "walking to the front doors and then turning away"? Protected while driving AND remaining in the vehicle, but not while walking to the front door.
 

Glockster

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There are exceptions to this. See my post #13 for this. You can walk right by a school with your sidearm openly displayed or concealed as long as you, 1) do not go onto school property and 2) have been issued a "license" (we call them permits here) to "possess" said firearm (no such thing in Virginia).

I'm not disagreeing with what will likely not happen (enforcement) but am saying that by the law you can't, hence it's not "perfectly legal" (which I think would refer to being explicitly allowed for by statute). 18 USC § 922, which is "Unlawful Acts" says that you have to have it not loaded, locked container (and then I believe that the CHP kicks in regarding it simply being in the vehicle and you remain in the vehicle). But I'm not seeing an exemption for the distance to school property rule simply because you have a CHP. The only exemption that I see is when going onto the property, related to parking lot and drop off areas.
 

Glockster

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There is considerable question as to the legaliy of the GFZ. It was tossed by the Courts once then slightly reworded and has been unenforced as a stand alone crime since

Yeah, I assume you're referring to the rewording to cover the whole "interstate commerce" inclusion for applicability. I've never quite understood then how it could even apply IF it involved a gun wholly manufactured in the state in which it is then carried. The court's argument (at District court level) is that essentially all guns are moved at some time through interstate commerce, hence the jurisdiction. And I don't understand how IF they tried to enforce that they could arrest you given that it would seem that they'd have the legal obligation to prove probable cause (a reasonable belief that the gun in question was in fact regulated by interstate commerce). How can they say with certainty that the knew before arrest (if there ever was one) that they knew in advance that the particular gun you were carrying, obscured by your holster, was covered under the law. All of that was just an end around to hold off any SCOTUS examination, I think.
 
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roscoe13

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Apr 18, 2007
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Catlett, Virginia, USA
I've heard that mentioned before but I was looking through the complete text of GFZA this morning and didn't see anything there that provided exemptions for CHP holders. Is that recognition provided somewhere else? (would appreciate it if you could point me to it so that I will know what the exemption is)


From http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

"(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license
;
"

Roscoe
 

MagiK_SacK

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Messages
257
Location
VA Beach, VA
Did I misunderstand your above post where you said that you carried while "walking to the front doors and then turning away"? Protected while driving AND remaining in the vehicle, but not while walking to the front door.

Given my lack of editing before hitting the reply button, no you did not misunderstand. Now that I have re-read the post I can tell you it was poorly written at best. :uhoh: It was ment to be from a hypothetical stand point as far as the walking to/from picking up my kid. The truth, or seriousness, in the matter is that my son rides to bus to school, stays for the after care and I get him when I get off of work. I do go after I go home to change and I do arm up, but I do leave it in the glove box and lock the car, seeing as how I have to go into the school. By reading what you have posted...

"Your CHP does not exempt you from doing other than "(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school." So the following still applies:....."

That doesn't mention anything about not being able to leave your vehicle. So as far as I understand it in the glove box and locked while I go inside to pick up my son is legal.

I hope that clears things up. Looking at my inital post now (the day after) it was poorly written. I guess that's what I get for posting while being angry and not reviewing what I wrote :banghead:
 
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