Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 53

Thread: FYI Don't Buy Tannerite in Bulk if You Don't Want the ATF Knocking on Your Door

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hampton, AR
    Posts
    228

    FYI Don't Buy Tannerite in Bulk if You Don't Want the ATF Knocking on Your Door

    Every weekend a bunch of my friends get together for some shooting fun out in Rowan County. Somebody usually brings a few pounds of tannerite with them, but its actual "Tannerite" packages in 1lb cans. Well that crap is is ~$10 a lbs.... can get expensive. So being the little genious that I am I find a website where I can buy amonium nitrate and aluminum powder in bulk for pretty cheap! 50lbs bulk.... it ended up costing like $3 per/lb. It was really easy to buy too, too easy. no questions of my age, criminal record, any personal info whatsoever!

    Well I'm at work right now anf my roommate is at home, he gets a knock on the door. 2 ATF agents start asking about me. They give my roommate their info and say that if i dont call today then they will come get me at my work tomorrow! So needless to say I called. They were nice and very professional. They wanted to know where I bought it if there were any warnings any restrictions I was told about and my plans for it. My plans are to make my own reactive targets and have some fun! They told me I had done nothing wrong or illegal, just that this day and age purchaces like this put up flags. I even told them where I'll be blowing this stuff up at if they wanted to come watch. Definitely got the blood rushing when I heard ATF was looking for me! lol

    Oh just to make sure this qualifies as "OC relevant" The roommate was OCing while talking to the agents, neither one even batted an eye

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,862
    Quote Originally Posted by aosailor View Post
    They were nice and very professional. They wanted to know where I bought it if there were any warnings any restrictions I was told about and my plans for it...They told me I had done nothing wrong or illegal, just that this day and age purchaces like this put up flags.
    I would have told them since I'd done nothing wrong, illegal or etc, that my plans were to posses it until such time as I saw fit to dispose of it in a legal manner pleasing to me, and to kindly F&*K off.

    I generally don't answer people's questions just because they're curious (flags or not), and them having a badge has little sway over that decision.

    $0.02

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hampton, AR
    Posts
    228
    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    I would have told them since I'd done nothing wrong, illegal or etc, that my plans were to posses it until such time as I saw fit to dispose of it in a legal manner pleasing to me, and to kindly F&*K off.

    I generally don't answer people's questions just because they're curious (flags or not), and them having a badge has little sway over that decision.

    $0.02
    Generally I'm the same, but since they were cool with my roommate and very professional with me on the phone, I decided I would be nice and cordial with them. The agent seemed more worried about me hurting myself mixing the components than buying so much. They knew I was ex-military, but only that. Once I explained I was an ordnance specialist in the Navy and now do UXO work as a contractor he pretty much didnt care anymore, had an attitude like "Oh, OK, you got this".

    I'll call them again when I go use some this weekend, see if they want to watch the fun... never had ATF come investigate us before, local Sheriff is getting bored with us lol

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,862
    I think it's good to be polite, and I'm not in any way dissing your choice to respond in that manner. Government agents are people too, and want to be treated as such. Good on you.

    I just really despise the ATF.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by aosailor View Post
    SNIP I'll call them again when I go use some this weekend, see if they want to watch the fun... never had ATF come investigate us before, local Sheriff is getting bored with us lol
    Please, please don't. You will only be inviting trouble upon yourself. As nice as they may seem the ATF is certainly not your friend.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,031
    So, what about buying "Tannerite" in bulk?

  7. #7
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    rural religious usa
    Posts
    673
    so let me understand aosailer...
    you bought 50+ pounds of bomb making material from the internet, shortly thereafter received a visit from several agents of the governmental agency who has oversight of this type of thing and you felt it necessary to tell these agents you have the necessary training as a navy ordinance technician an continue to work in this area to make bombs or dismantle them because you were in 'talkative' mood to volunteer this information? Further, you felt it appropriate to 'invite' the agents to watch the results of your handiwork?

    do you realize how much you have put yourself and those in your circle of 'friends' on the radar screen for the many agencies who are going to be watching your activities over the next several years?

    of course, you have not done anything illegal, per se, but in today's 'shades of the patriot act' security conscious environment your actions have put yourself into quite a visual situation for all governmental as well as local agency(ies) to watch. do you realize if there is an incident anywhere, someone or something blows up in your area or within a radius of your location, how fast these 'nice guys' will be knocking on your door to 'chat' w/you again? you now have to 'defend' yourself to assure you are not charged.

    while i am not an attorney, but if you are making explosive devices to 'shoot off' i would suggest you might consider accounting for every ounce of your bomb making material and when and how it was disposed of in a journal (or two) in case the 'nice guys' come knocking again in case an incident occurs in the area.

    wabbit

    ps: oh and when the nice agents do their report and fire marshal arrives to talk with you about the inert bomb making materials you have stored or that you are making 'explosive' type devices in your neighbourhood home...please let us know how that conversation goes.
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 03-15-2012 at 08:57 PM.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    16,850
    I'm curious to know how ATF knew he was in the military.

    Did the purchase trigger a backround investigation?

    How long between the purchase and the knock on the door?

    Was it really a larger tannerite purchase that triggered the inquiry, or was it an odd ammonium nitrate quantity that triggered the inquiry? You know, too large for a chemistry set, too small for agriculture.
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-15-2012 at 08:59 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    rural religious usa
    Posts
    673
    quote ...buy amonium nitrate and aluminum powder in bulk for pretty cheap! 50lbs bulk...unquote

    i believe, no cite available, but i am sure the seller had to notify the authorities about the purchase, especially after OK City bombing, per se...

    roomie got chatty and mention his prior service? (pure speculation)

    wabbit
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 03-15-2012 at 09:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Terra, Sol
    Posts
    2,784
    Here we go again.

    Never talk to the Police.....


    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  11. #11
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    2,852
    Since tannerite (as a binary explosive) is inert until mixed, there are no laws against its possession... and I would highly doubt any laws mandating that only certain amounts of inert materials can be possessed.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,392
    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit
    i would suggest you might consider accounting for every ounce of your bomb making material and when and how it was disposed of in a journal (or two) in case the 'nice guys' come knocking again in case an incident occurs in the area.
    That's actually not a bad idea.

    ps: oh and when the nice agents do their report and fire marshal arrives to talk with you about the inert bomb making materials you have stored or that you are making 'explosive' type devices in your neighbourhood home... please let us know how that conversation goes.
    I don't think the fire marshall will be notified or involved unless something goes boom where it shouldn't.
    As Falls pointed out, both parts are inert until mixed.
    Even then, it takes something like the impact from a bullet to set it off. I've been told a pistol round won't do it because it's not high energy enough, but have no evidence one way or the other.

    My nephews posted a video of them launching a 50-gal plastic drum I-don't-know-how-high (it went off-screen for several seconds, so at least 60') with a tannerite explosion set off inside/under it (it was upside down).

    They looked far too amused, but I'm not worried about them hurting themselves or anyone else, accidentally or otherwise, with bang toys or boom targets.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-15-2012 at 10:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    rural religious usa
    Posts
    673
    quote: In the United States, ATF regulations allow the two components to be legally purchased, since neither one is an explosive by itself. However, the mixture is an explosive once mixed, and cannot be transported without following strict regulations...various regulations exist for transportation and storage of mixed Tannerite.

    It also has uses as a general explosive that, prior to mixing, can be sold, transported, and stored in the United States without any special permits.
    unquote wikipedia.

    found the seller notification information:
    quote: After the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, ATF formed an alliance with The Fertilizer Institute (TFI) and other agriculture industry members to put forward the “Be Aware for America” program. This voluntary program encourages agriculture industry members to report any suspicious activities or thefts of ammonium nitrate — a precursor chemical often sought by those with criminal intent — to ATF. This program was expanded in 1998 to include “Be Secure for America” and again in 2004 as part of the “America’s Security Begins with You” initiative.
    http://www.atf.gov/explosives/progra...rate-security/ unquote

    ATF 2004 pamphlet quote: The public safety issues surrounding the potential criminal misuse of ammonium nitrate fertilizer are of the highest concern to the nation’s agribusiness industry and its partners in law enforcement. As a result of these serious concerns, U.S. retailers must now demonstrate increased vigilance to help ensure ammonium nitrate cannot be obtained by those with criminal intent. IDENTIFY YOUR CUSTOMERS
    ALERT
    LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS

    unquote http://www.atf.gov/explosives/progra...u-brochure.pdf

    bottom line aosailer, you've purchased inert material to manufacture explosives for not commerical use from two inert materials as defined by 27CFR 555.11; 555.26, 555.41(a) and while not illegal per se, apparent transportation of the mixed binary materials into an explosive compound is w/o appropriate license from atf.

    wabbit

    ps: knowing how to properly mix it is my lack of knowledge...
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 03-15-2012 at 10:46 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hampton, AR
    Posts
    228
    i'm gonna try to touch on everybody's comments/questions here... wish me luck lol
    Where we shoot is out in the country, on private land we shoot down hill into a backstop. The closest house is about a half mile away in the opposite direction that we shoot. Every weekend the cops show up because somebody is complaining that we are setting off dynamite (serously that is the complaint) we deal with the cops so often we know them by name now. We finally decided to keep a pound of reactive target for when they showed up so they could actually see what it is we are exactly doing. They laughed said it was cool stuff but nothing illegal and nothing to complain about. They have since stopped coming, but they will drive by to make sure it us and not tresspassers. So we have no issues with local LEOs

    That being said, when ATF asked me why I bought it and I explained that I will be making my own reactive targets and using them out in rowan county, the agent did mention that they will be monitoring calls or incidents of explosions, fires, booms, etc. I advised him to speak with Rowan Sheriff they have all the info he will need, not only do they know what, when, where; they come to watch for fun. Nothing wrong, nothing illegal with what I am doing.

    I didnt give any info to ATF until they told me why they were calling. (kinda like getting pulled over by state trooper and they ask "do you know why I pulled you over?" I always say I have an idea but why don't you tell me why") He told me it was about my purchase and he made it perfectly clear that nothing I did was illegal, just purchases like this throw up flags and they have to monitor. He told me ahead of time that I'm on their radars, not that they will be following my every move or will be posting outside my house 24/7. (they have satellites though, thats why all my hats are lined w/ tinfoil) He was asking alot of questions about the company I bought it from, wanted to know if there were any security measures, or warnings on their website. I told him that I did think it was wierd just how easy it was to buy, I go through more hassle looking at free porn for crying out loud!

    The Fire Marshall shouldn't have anything to do with this, tannerite isn't flammable. Its combustable and very dangerous if you have no idea how to mix. That is why I explained to the ATF of my UXO background to let them know I have training and experience and know what I am doing. Though I do like the idea of a journal detailing the usage of every ounce... will be setting that up!

    BTW here is the website I bought the stuff from, if you guys are interested in getting some for yourselves lol
    http://theexplodingtargets.com/

  15. #15
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,382
    While I have a basic understanding of investigative and interrogatory techniques, I find it interesting that they asked you about what was on the website. I think at that point I would have said, "Look at it yourself if you want to know what it says, I'm sure they called you so why are you asking me" in a very nice tone of voice.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  16. #16
    Regular Member ArmySoldier22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    406
    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    While I have a basic understanding of investigative and interrogatory techniques, I find it interesting that they asked you about what was on the website. I think at that point I would have said, "Look at it yourself if you want to know what it says, I'm sure they called you so why are you asking me" in a very nice tone of voice.
    Maybe they wanted to get his opinion on the amount of safety warnings and such that were posted? I've seen places littered with warning signs that people sometimes really don't see.. So although they probably looked at the website already, maybe they wanted to see if the consumer was being warned enough of how potentially dangerous the items they're buying are.

    Another point that I just considered, don't purchases of items like this have to be specially marked when they're being shipped? Maybe the postal system informed the ATF of the movement of a large quantity of the product?

  17. #17
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    rural religious usa
    Posts
    673
    as has been pointed out...the individual materials are 'inert' and completely harmless so can be mailed per se.

    wabbit

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hampton, AR
    Posts
    228
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySoldier22 View Post
    Maybe they wanted to get his opinion on the amount of safety warnings and such that were posted? I've seen places littered with warning signs that people sometimes really don't see.. So although they probably looked at the website already, maybe they wanted to see if the consumer was being warned enough of how potentially dangerous the items they're buying are.

    Another point that I just considered, don't purchases of items like this have to be specially marked when they're being shipped? Maybe the postal system informed the ATF of the movement of a large quantity of the product?
    he had asked about the warnings before I gave him the website, told him I didnt see any and gave the website I used.
    As for the packages being marked, they tend not to have any crazy signs. I know when we buy kennepaks for work (binary explosive amonium nitrate and nitro methane) they are no danger signs on it, but that fedex guy sure does walk really slow dropping off those boxes! lol

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hampton, AR
    Posts
    228
    I think the thing that has freaked me out the most about all this is the fact the ATF knows where I live. My registered official address is different than the house I'm living at. I use several different addresses for mailing and billing. the only proof of residency for the house I physically reside in is the paper lease I signed. I have a copy and my landlord does, thats it. The ATF didnt go to the other address, they came straight to my doorstep and I have no idea how they knew

  20. #20
    Regular Member ArmySoldier22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    406
    Quote Originally Posted by aosailor View Post
    As for the packages being marked, they tend not to have any crazy signs. I know when we buy kennepaks for work (binary explosive amonium nitrate and nitro methane) they are no danger signs on it, but that fedex guy sure does walk really slow dropping off those boxes! lol
    Gotcha, I was just curious. I know when I order Potassium Perchlorate that it usually says "Hazardous material", so I wasn't sure. And it's inert as well, just an oxidizer.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    318
    Why didn't you just go to the feed store and by the Ammonium Nitrate? One of the Charlotte news channels did a report not too long ago about buying it. All you had to do was put your name in the stores log book. One stores even called the police on them because they were fishy. Wonder how they knew what you got if the packages were not marked and didn't know where you ordered it from.

    For everyone that needs a tin foil hat. Growing up in rural N.C. I have been in the same room with tons of Ammonium Nitrate and never worried about it blowing up. I also remember how easy it is to make Thermite from H.S. Chemistry.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 03-16-2012 at 12:54 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hampton, AR
    Posts
    228
    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Why didn't you just go to the feed store and by the Ammonium Nitrate? One of the Charlotte news channels did a report not too long ago about buying it. All you had to do was put your name in the stores log book. One stores even called the police on them because they were fishy. Wonder how they knew what you got if the packages were not marked and didn't know where you ordered it from.

    For everyone that needs a tin foil hat. Growing up in rural N.C. I have been in the same room with tons of Ammonium Nitrate and never worried about it blowing up. I also remember how easy it is to make Thermite from H.S. Chemistry.

    There is a big difference between agriculture grade and industrial grade amonium nitrate when it somes to its oxidizing effects in explosives. Both will work, but you get a bigger boom with the good stuff lol

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Tx
    Posts
    314
    WE WANT VIDEO!!! (of the boom, not the stinking ATF)
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

  24. #24
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    FL/NC
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    WE WANT VIDEO!!! (of the boom, not the stinking ATF)
    +1, Video...
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hampton, AR
    Posts
    228
    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    WE WANT VIDEO!!! (of the boom, not the stinking ATF)
    haha Will do! just remember, I'm not doing all 50lbs at once... the biggest boom I might do is probably around 5lbs.... but I'll make sure to video it

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •