3/16/2012 Cincinnati PD Says if U Open Carry U Get Arrested for Inducing Panic

GhostOfJefferson · Mar 22, 2012

color of law said:
Contrary to what the police chief knows to be a Constitutional right it's apparent his officers are not getting the training. I too called the Cincinnati police and was connected to officer Givens, badge 308, and was told that if a open carrying call was received such an action would be cause for alarm and an investigation would ensue.

When I asked about policy dealing with open carry I was told I should call in the morning and talk to a first shift officer. He tried to sell the idea that a conceal carry license was required to open carry. By the tone of his voice I think he really really believed a license was required to open carry.

This officer was polite but it was clearly apparent he had no clue.

As to GhostOfJefferson's comments. There is a heavy price to pay to defend your rights. If you don't have the ability to defend yourself you better have 4 to 5 thousand bucks at your disposal to pay for your defense. And I ain't talking about prepaid legal services.

I am not implying that you should not exercise your rights - I do it on a daily bases....

And do that I shall, and I have the ability to fund it (and will pursue recompensation under 9.68 after they are forced to drop any charges, if it comes to that). Fortunately, nobody bugs me much up here in central Ohio (as you know). Must be my square jawed handsome patriot looks, with cruel but attractive eyes, that keeps people from saying bad things. (that's a joke)

What I find funny in an ironic way is that it will be the "well to do" that will get our rights back (as usual), while being spat at by the "99%" hippies who wish to take all of our rights away, and while being held in general disdain by apolitical people who are being raised to dislike anybody who makes more than $25,000 a year but who will benefit the most from having individual rights restored. An OT comment, just musing out loud.

OT: If there needs to be an OC march or twenty down in Cincy, count me in.

Xspander · Mar 22, 2012

BB62 said:
Since the OP has disappeared into the ether, I decided to make my own phone call, about 15 minutes ago.

I called the non-emergency number (513-765-1212) and asked "Is it legal to openly carry a handgun, in a holster, in Cincinnati?" The woman responded that she was not an officer, but that she could connect me to one. Officer Campbell, of District 1, answered. I posed the question to her. Her answer was "If the person has a license." I asked "What kind of license?" She responded "The one that the Sheriff's office issues". (In Ohio, county Sheriffs' issue concealed carry licenses). She offered to transfer me to the Sheriff's office, but I declined.

I asked her if there was an officer in charge that I could speak to. She asked "Why?" I said because her answer was not my understanding of the law, and that I wanted to double-check. She said that all those in charge were on the road/out. I asked who I would speak to IF they were "in the office" and she told me "Sergeant Robbins" (sp?).

I thanked her, and said she could go ahead and transfer me to the Sheriff. After holding for a while, the call was dropped.

Assuming the OP's post is accurate as to what the officer, whoever he was, said, then it seems Cincinnati has not only a training problem, but also a problem interpreting/applying the law.

This seems like a matter worth pursuing further, and I intend to do so.

Sorry I haven't checked this thread in a while. The officer I did speak with said his name was Cook and I could've sworn he said he was a lieutenant, however I might be mistaken. I do know for a fact that his name was Cook. Yes, this is legit. I'm not making this up.

Fallschirjmäger · Mar 22, 2012

color of law said:
Contrary to what the police chief knows to be a Constitutional right it's apparent his officers are not getting the training. I too called the Cincinnati police and was connected to officer Givens, badge 308, and was told that if a open carrying call was received such an action would be cause for alarm and an investigation would ensue.

It would seem apparent that Officer Friendly believes he can intimidate Joe Citizen from carrying by responding with officers and an "investigation".

Now, normally... I would be the last to suggest this, but since it's the police department's idea...
Find a 'concerned friend' and have him accompany you to a few places for a few days. Since he's "concerned" he may freely call the police department on their (Non-Emergency Number, please)and express his concern.

It's all fun and games... until Officer Friendly realizes he's the one being played, and then he won't want to play anymore.

Don't allege any illegality
Don't request a response
Don't tie up any police resources
Do state that you're pretty certain it's perfectly legal, but you just called to check.

BB62 · Mar 22, 2012

Xspander said:
Sorry I haven't checked this thread in a while. The officer I did speak with said his name was Cook and I could've sworn he said he was a lieutenant, however I might be mistaken. I do know for a fact that his name was Cook. Yes, this is legit. I'm not making this up.

Okay...

FYI, when you set up your account, you can designate an e-mail address in order to be notified when someone posts to a thread you started or have posted on. If you intend to stick around here, I suggest that you make use of that function. This will not only increase your credibility, but it will also facillitate better discussions.

If you, like GhostOfJefferson, would like to take part in what seems to be some needed re-education, and/or some activism, stay tuned. I made some phone calls today, and will make more tomorrow. I will report back, hopefully then.

RCall · Mar 22, 2012

Hmmm, never thought about this before but i think ill call my local P.D. (Tipp City) tomorrow and see what they have to say when i ask them if it is legal to open carry in town. I have been for about 6 months now with no LEO problems, but I tell you what when I take my daughter to the park she usually gets the whole playground to herself within 10 minutes on average and i get some nasty stares from time to time. but im not complaining.

color of law · Mar 23, 2012

RCall said:
Hmmm, never thought about this before but i think ill call my local P.D. (Tipp City) tomorrow and see what they have to say when i ask them if it is legal to open carry in town. I have been for about 6 months now with no LEO problems, but I tell you what when I take my daughter to the park she usually gets the whole playground to herself within 10 minutes on average and i get some nasty stares from time to time. but im not complaining.

You have to quit open carrying. Chasing off all the other children deprives your daughter of interaction with the other children. This could greatly interfere with your daughters mental development. It's for the children.

GhostOfJefferson · Mar 23, 2012

RCall said:
Hmmm, never thought about this before but i think ill call my local P.D. (Tipp City) tomorrow and see what they have to say when i ask them if it is legal to open carry in town. I have been for about 6 months now with no LEO problems, but I tell you what when I take my daughter to the park she usually gets the whole playground to herself within 10 minutes on average and i get some nasty stares from time to time. but im not complaining.

That's probably the opposite of what you should do. The general rule of thumb is, if it's perfectly legal, don't call and "check" with the police, that can only lead to a heightened awareness with the PD that somehow, somewhere, somebody might be peacefully exercising a right, and they'll start keeping an eye out for you. Not even talking Ohio specifically, but anywhere.

Face it, unless you live in an urban area, you probably have a violent crime rate which rivals that of Switzerland, generally speaking, which means almost zero. We have an awful lot of cops who are bored out of their skulls and looking for things to do. I suggest not tipping them off and giving them a fun game to play.

The exception to this of course is a large, active demonstration of open carry, where you want them to know.

Second topic...people leave? Really? There must be a huge 50 mile bubble of "shrug" where I roam, nobody seems to care or notice, and I've gotten nothing but positive comments when they do notice, except for one person so far. Even from soccer moms when walking through the subdivision.

bhclark · Mar 23, 2012

color of law said:
You have to quit open carrying. Chasing off all the other children deprives your daughter of interaction with the other children. This could greatly interfere with your daughters mental development. It's for the children.

I certainly hope you're kidding.

I'm sure she gets plenty of interactions with other children when he's not "scaring" them all off.

color of law · Mar 23, 2012

bhclark said:
I certainly hope you're kidding.

I'm sure she gets plenty of interactions with other children when he's not "scaring" them all off.

After being on this forum since 2007, having posted over 500 times, you are the first to figure out that I'm a long time under cover troll.

Please don't tell anyone else what you discovered.

BB62 · Mar 23, 2012

Well, well, well.

Yesterday and today I made calls to all of Cincinnati's police districts - 1 through 5, directly. Every single officer I spoke with, except one who wasn't sure of the answer, told me that either A) a CCW permit was needed to open carry, or B) one cannot carry openly, one must get a "CCW permit" and must carry concealed! Additionally, one officer told me that one could be cited for improper carrying if one had a CCW and was carrying openly.

One officer went so far as to tell me that one cannot carry openly "like Wyatt Earp". I didn't ask her if my Doc Holliday or Billy the Kid impression would pass muster, though.

I was simply stunned by the results of the phone calls. From semi-recent personal experience OCing in Cincinnati, through the results of the phone calls, it's clear to me that whatever training is being given is not sinking in.

I have some thoughts for next steps, but am open to all suggestions.

Deanimator · Mar 24, 2012

BB62 said:
Well, well, well.

Yesterday and today I made calls to all of Cincinnati's police districts - 1 through 5, directly. Every single officer I spoke with, except one who wasn't sure of the answer, told me that either A) a CCW permit was needed to open carry, or B) one cannot carry openly, one must get a "CCW permit" and must carry concealed! Additionally, one officer told me that one could be cited for improper carrying if one had a CCW and was carrying openly.

One officer went so far as to tell me that one cannot carry openly "like Wyatt Earp". I didn't ask her if my Doc Holliday or Billy the Kid impression would pass muster, though.

I was simply stunned by the results of the phone calls. From semi-recent personal experience OCing in Cincinnati, through the results of the phone calls, it's clear to me that whatever training is being given is not sinking in.

I have some thoughts for next steps, but am open to all suggestions.

And this surprises you HOW???

The default condition is for police to not know, and in far too many instances, simply not CARE about the law.

Apparently some of them hear "qualified immunity" and think "absolute immunity". It can be an expensive mistake.

Deanimator · Mar 24, 2012

MKEgal said:
Point out someone walking past with a dog, or person of a different color, & tell the officer that makes you feel bad & would the officer check their ID to make you feel better.

In Cincinnatti, they probably WOULD. They've got a well earned reputation for that sort of thing.

There's a moderator on another forum who openly advocated ILLEGAL racial profiling, contrary to his own Terms of Service. Not surprisingly, he's an active cop in the Cincinnatti area.

BB62 · Mar 24, 2012

Deanimator said:
And this surprises you HOW???...

When you get 80% of officers contacted who earnestly tell you the wrong thing, I think that adds up to "stunned".

There's more to the story than I can post at the moment, but be assured that "stunned" covers it pretty well.

RCall · Mar 25, 2012

bhclark said:
I certainly hope you're kidding.

I'm sure she gets plenty of interactions with other children when he's not "scaring" them all off.

Yes she goes to daycare about 30 hours a week with dozens of other kids and im not there.

Thanks for the backup bhclark, i knew i shouldnt have even said anything to begin with.

Also, im not gonna post on this again i dont want to bring the thread off topic.

bhclark · Mar 26, 2012

color of law said:
After being on this forum since 2007, having posted over 500 times, you are the first to figure out that I'm a long time under cover troll.

Please don't tell anyone else what you discovered.

Relax....Sarcasm is so easily missed online...

marshaul · Mar 26, 2012

I'm genuinely curious about the thought process which inspires a person to call a PD asking for legal advice, especially regarding firearms.

Makes about as much sense to me as **** on a bull.

GhostOfJefferson · Mar 26, 2012

BB62 said:
Well, well, well.

Yesterday and today I made calls to all of Cincinnati's police districts - 1 through 5, directly. Every single officer I spoke with, except one who wasn't sure of the answer, told me that either A) a CCW permit was needed to open carry, or B) one cannot carry openly, one must get a "CCW permit" and must carry concealed! Additionally, one officer told me that one could be cited for improper carrying if one had a CCW and was carrying openly.

One officer went so far as to tell me that one cannot carry openly "like Wyatt Earp". I didn't ask her if my Doc Holliday or Billy the Kid impression would pass muster, though.

I was simply stunned by the results of the phone calls. From semi-recent personal experience OCing in Cincinnati, through the results of the phone calls, it's clear to me that whatever training is being given is not sinking in.

I have some thoughts for next steps, but am open to all suggestions.

What idiots. The one person who didn't know was at least giving an honest, and factual, answer. It's shocking that people charged with enforcing the law, don't know the law, and worse, make up the law on the fly. Where has it *ever* been written about "CCW permit" (whatever that is) being required for open carry, or forcing one to conceal carry? I mean, I get if it was the law at one time but was changed and they simply haven't been re-trained, but for them to make up fabrications out of whole cloth about "laws" which have never existed here, and pass it on to the public as fact, is terrible.

It's sounding more and more like we need some serious OC walks/activism to get Cincy compliant with the rest of the state. If your thoughts are otherwise I'd be interested in knowing what you have in mind.

color of law · Mar 26, 2012

marshaul said:
I'm genuinely curious about the thought process which inspires a person to call a PD asking for legal advice, especially regarding firearms.

Makes about as much sense to me as **** on a bull.

No one is asking for legal advise of the police. What is being asked is what is the policy of the police in dealing with open carry. The implication of the courts is the citizen is presumed to know the law, but the police are NOT presumed to know the law. This has to change. The other is the police have an attitude that you don't have a right to exercise your rights, without their permission of course.

marshaul · Mar 26, 2012

color of law said:
No one is asking for legal advise of the police. What is being asked is what is the policy of the police in dealing with open carry.

Meh. I don't see the difference. I bet you they wouldn't either. Either way, expect a BS answer.

The implication of the courts is the citizen is presumed to know the law, but the police are NOT presumed to know the law. This has to change. The other is the police have an attitude that you don't have a right to exercise your rights, without their permission of course.

I don't disagree, but... Good luck with that.

Frankly I think my approach (fire them all) is more likely, and that's saying something.

BB62 · Mar 27, 2012

I have limited computer access for the next day or so, but will respond to various posts later this week.

Please, no armed crowds in the meanwhile!

3/16/2012 Cincinnati PD Says if U Open Carry U Get Arrested for Inducing Panic

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