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Thread: buddy denied pistol purchase, could use some help

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    buddy denied pistol purchase, could use some help

    So long story short, a friend bought a pistol before he had his chp. The friend then acquired his chp, and wanted to buy another pistol within his 30 day window. At the time of his most recent transaction, he forgot to show his chp, so his purchase was declined. After a call to the VSP, all was sorted out, and now the manager of the gun shop will not let him re-apply stating once he's need denied, he can't re-apply.
    So the question. Is there something saying that he can or can't try to purchase the gun again? The gun shop in question is the new one inside the Langley BX. Thank you for your help.
    3. Move thumb safety down taking gun off safety. Caution: The gun is now ready to fire. Be prepared for noise and recoil when pistol fires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolcanoe View Post
    So long story short, a friend bought a pistol before he had his chp. The friend then acquired his chp, and wanted to buy another pistol within his 30 day window. At the time of his most recent transaction, he forgot to show his chp, so his purchase was declined. After a call to the VSP, all was sorted out, and now the manager of the gun shop will not let him re-apply stating once he's need denied, he can't re-apply.
    So the question. Is there something saying that he can or can't try to purchase the gun again? The gun shop in question is the new one inside the Langley BX. Thank you for your help.
    Wow, so many questions....I was under the impression that they were able to determine that you were a CHP WHEN they ran you in the system as there is no requirement that I see in § 18.2-308.2:2 that requires you to present your CHP.

    And then there is the whole issue of a gun shop refusing to run the check. I guess that User would need to comment on that one, but it is a bit boggling. Did he say exactly what it is that supposedly prohibits him from doing that?

    Interesting, and wow.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolcanoe View Post
    So long story short, a friend bought a pistol before he had his chp. The friend then acquired his chp, and wanted to buy another pistol within his 30 day window. At the time of his most recent transaction, he forgot to show his chp, so his purchase was declined. After a call to the VSP, all was sorted out, and now the manager of the gun shop will not let him re-apply stating once he's need denied, he can't re-apply.
    So the question. Is there something saying that he can or can't try to purchase the gun again? The gun shop in question is the new one inside the Langley BX. Thank you for your help.
    just so i understand...
    friend bought hg #1, then got permission slip.
    went to buy hg #2 before 30 days elapsed, but didn't show chp, and so, was denied bc of the 30-day law and vsp mix-up.
    straightened everything out with vsp and went back to bx, but was not allowed to purchase bc of prior denial.

    correct? if so, go somewhere else. it's obvious they don't want your friend's business. everything i've read suggests that the ffl doesn't know why a transaction is marked 'denied', unless the vsp calls and says 'please try to delay the applicant, we're sending someone over'.

    maybe they have an internal policy that says 'once denied, no future service' and i guess they can do that as a business policy, kinda like 'no shirt, no shoes, no service'. their prerogative. personally, i'd go elsewhere.
    Last edited by mk4; 03-16-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I would suspect that a base exchange is going to have a price that is lower enough than nearby retail that it's worth the hassle.

    I guess the question your friend needs to find out is how long before he can come back and make the next attempt, and is the cost savings worth that wait time.

    TFred

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    I think he should appeal the denial. Hope there's still time.

    The store manager is full of "stuff". Just plain wrong.
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    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    mk4 has it. He wants to buy a pt145 I believe, for a pretty good price. He should be headed over there really soon to talk with them again. I want to say it was a week before he found out about the denial so it must have been last/ this week time frame.
    3. Move thumb safety down taking gun off safety. Caution: The gun is now ready to fire. Be prepared for noise and recoil when pistol fires.

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    Regular Member GreatDaneMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolcanoe View Post
    mk4 has it. He wants to buy a pt145 I believe, for a pretty good price. He should be headed over there really soon to talk with them again. I want to say it was a week before he found out about the denial so it must have been last/ this week time frame.

    Good choice. I have a newest generation 145. Welcome to come try it out at Superior shooting range. Hit me up.
    Last edited by GreatDaneMan; 03-17-2012 at 12:18 AM.
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    Regular Member Mayhem's Avatar
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    Does the VSP report back to the seller why the buyer was denied? I am going to guess No.

    I can understand the why the seller would say no to a second chance if he has no clue why.

    And I agree with the others.... take your business to another store and be sure to tell them about your permit.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Geeese!
    The gun shop is wrong but they can refuse to sell it because they don't like the color of his shirt.
    Tell your friend to put a deposit on it and wait out the 30 days like the rest of us or find a better gun shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Geeese!
    The gun shop is wrong but they can refuse to sell it because they don't like the color of his shirt.
    Tell your friend to put a deposit on it and wait out the 30 days like the rest of us or find a better gun shop.

    Actually, that used to be the case, but not anymore. 59.1-200, paragraph 8, I think, says that a refusal to sell on terms advertised is a violation of the Virginia Consumer Protection Act, good for $500 minimum plus atty's fees. If there's no lawful reason why they can't sell it, they have to do so.
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    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    The original post indicates that it happened at the Langley Base Exchange. I didn't know they had a gun shop inside the BX. My dad is retired Air Force and it has been a long time since I have been in there with him. Now I'll have to bug him about taking me next time he goes.

    The BX which is on Langley AFB is part of the Army Air Force Exchange Services system (AAFES). Dan Daniels Distribution is contracted by the Federal Government to run AAFES or at least a large part of it. No Federal or State sales tax is charged to the patrons as the BX is exempt from state sales taxes and the soldiers and sailors and family members are not charged federal taxes either as part of their bennies. Don't know how the gun shop works with this. They are probably either part of AAFES or contracted as a vendor working for AAFES / Dan Daniels. I would guess since the firearms are being sold within the boundaries of Virginia the firearm is being treated as sold in Va as the defacto state of sale although it is really being sold on federal property. I would think if the gun shop doesn't do what they are supposed to the first course of action is complaining to the BX management then checking with Dan Daniels which operates the distribution center for many base exchanges and may also have some part of the operation of the Base Exchanges. They are located just off the south side of Warwick Blvd just north of FT Eustis in Newport News. I would think the next step would be a complaint the Langley AFB authorities that may have base oversite reguarding AAFES. The reason I mention Dan Daniels is there was a woman that I knew that worked at the distribution center. She had to go to the Langley BX and to the FT Lee BX on a few occasions to work. If the gun shop is actually run by an independant contractor with Virginia liscensing operating for Dan Daniels then the course suggested by USER is probaly right as he most certainly knows way more law than I do.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobeewan View Post
    suggested by USER is probaly right as he most certainly knows way more law than I do.
    Yes, User does know the law and I'm sure he's right.
    My comment was direted at the ME FIRST, P4P direction of the post or as Ed would say...What does this have to do with open carry in Virginia?

    I know, I know....he'll use his CHP to buy two guns in a month so he can Open Carry twice as much as us non CHP Oc'ers

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yes, User does know the law and I'm sure he's right.
    My comment was direted at the ME FIRST, P4P direction of the post or as Ed would say...What does this have to do with open carry in Virginia?

    I know, I know....he'll use his CHP to buy two guns in a month so he can Open Carry twice as much as us non CHP Oc'ers
    So why are you so mad at me? I was only suggesting an alternative for the OP that might get a quicker resolution. Then again, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and let you whine and bitch about P4P.
    Last edited by mobeewan; 03-19-2012 at 03:43 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobeewan View Post
    So why are you so mad at me? and let you whine and bitch about P4P.
    I wasn't until you said that!
    Whine and bitch huh?

    Like I always say..."Just because you can afford a gun, doesn't Fill in the blank_____________"

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Actually, that used to be the case, but not anymore. 59.1-200, paragraph 8, I think, says that a refusal to sell on terms advertised is a violation of the Virginia Consumer Protection Act, good for $500 minimum plus atty's fees. If there's no lawful reason why they can't sell it, they have to do so.
    This is good information. I'l let him know.

    As for who runs the stand, I'm pretty sure it's AAFES, though I'm not sure where the guns come from. It'll be hard to go somewhere else for gun accessories. Tax free is nice.
    3. Move thumb safety down taking gun off safety. Caution: The gun is now ready to fire. Be prepared for noise and recoil when pistol fires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolcanoe View Post
    This is good information. I'l let him know.

    As for who runs the stand, I'm pretty sure it's AAFES, though I'm not sure where the guns come from. It'll be hard to go somewhere else for gun accessories. Tax free is nice.
    In following this discussion, I've wondered whether VA law even applies here. AAFES is an instrumentality of the Department of Defense and is commanded by a Major General who rotates between the Army and the Air Force. It is located on federal property and its employees are a type of federal employee. Their customers are limited to acitve duty military, retirees, dependents generally. There are a few exceptions to this. They have sometimes worked with the states on the sale of certain items, but it to the best of my knowledge it has always been done for political considerations rather than a legal requirement. For example, for years they brought alcohol on the base without regard for the laws of the state where they were located. They changed the alcohol procedures for political considerations not because the states were legally able to bring them into compliance.

    Gary

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    Whether they follow state laws regarding some things or not, he showed them 59.1-200 para 8 after the manager didn't want to run the check again today. He got his background check.... Oddly enough the instant check came back delayed once more.... To be continued...
    3. Move thumb safety down taking gun off safety. Caution: The gun is now ready to fire. Be prepared for noise and recoil when pistol fires.

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    Newbie here, but I work in a gun store. This is how it works:

    When we enter the customer information for the background check we have no way of knowing if you have a CHP unless we see it.

    There's a checkbox on the background check entry screen if a CHP is presented and the number is entered there. That is an exemption to the 1-handgun-a-month restriction. Without that information (or certain other, like LEO or a multiple purchase form) the purchase will be denied if it's within the 30-day window.

    Hope that helps.

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    Background check approved. He's picking it up today.
    3. Move thumb safety down taking gun off safety. Caution: The gun is now ready to fire. Be prepared for noise and recoil when pistol fires.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I was at the LAFB Exchange the day before their "Grand Opening" for the gun counter. I asked for info about what they sold and they gave me a website that was a supplier. It didn't have prices, but if they are anything like the Marine Exchange in Norfolk, they claim they will BEAT any other store's price if you have the other store's price published in writing (paper, ad, whatever).

    Think about that offer AND the fact that we pay NO TAX on purchases. That makes it a very nice price, indeed!
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    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I wonder how many of these Exchange purchases end up being for other folks who are well qualified to purchase and possess, but just not there at the Exchange...

    TFred

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