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Thread: Letter That We Are Banning Businesses/Stores/Shops

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Letter That We Are Banning Businesses/Stores/Shops

    Question, with all our power in numbers, why can't we as a group, or the NFAC as a group, send a letter out to these stores, telling them we will no longer as a group, shop at their establishment.

    Not sending it to the manager, but to the OWNER, who's pocket it will hurt the most.

    Just a thought.

    We have a thread on here and many other forums, whereas we can post a link to a central forum to get this done.

    These people DO NOT read these forums, so basically it is info for us. If we gave links to these posts so the OWNERS could read them, then maybe, they might change their mind seeing how many people are for it (OC), and how many people are against their business.


    Again,
    Just a thought, and I would be happy to make this forum the central forum/link etc.

    All we need is a letter written and backed by the NFAC/NRA. I am not a member of the NRA so someone who is a life member might get this done, your paying for it. I strongly doubt the NRA would even put their name on something like this and we would have to see if the NFAC would as well.

    Again, just thinking out loud.

    What say YE!

    Jim
    Last edited by Rollbar; 03-16-2012 at 03:56 PM.

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    That is a boycott, not a ban.


    mbogo470

  3. #3
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Ok, So Boycott then.

    ban1    [ban] Show IPA verb, banned, ban·ning, noun
    verb (used with object)
    1.
    to prohibit, forbid, or bar; interdict: to ban nuclear weapons; The dictator banned all newspapers and books that criticized his regime.

    boy·cott   [boi-kot] Show IPA
    verb (used with object)
    1.
    to combine in abstaining from, or preventing dealings with, as a means of intimidation or coercion: to boycott a store.
    2.
    to abstain from buying or using: to boycott foreign products.
    Last edited by Rollbar; 03-16-2012 at 05:03 PM.

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    On a case to case that is exactly what is already being done.

    We talk to managers of big companies and send letters to owners or CEO's. Small, local businesses get a personal talk or a letter.

    If you have a business that is not friendly to OC/CC post it here, sombody may have already written a letter. We can always write more, and commit to not spending our money there. As we (the gun carrying community) have shown, we are a force to be reconned with. We provided Starbucks with more business during the anti-gun boycott than they had before the boycott.
    Last edited by FallonJeeper; 03-16-2012 at 06:13 PM.
    Hoka hey

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    50 Views of this post.

    I guess it is not that important to get these/some businesses on board with our constitution and to help them realize our goal.

    Although we send a letter/some send. It needs to be organized and fed through a organization, a great opportunity for NFAC/NRA IMHO in Nevada to spear head and get noticed through out the USA.

    With a blanket letter ON A LETTER HEAD as of NFAC/NRA it will be noticed more IMHO, and, the letter can even be sent to the TV news stations, that will wake people up.

    Talking to the manager MIGHT help, but they are not the owner/corporate office and can not make that kind of decision,except what they feel is right/based on non information from the owner half the time and he said she said/I think this is our policy etc.

    Again, just an observation.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallonJeeper View Post
    On a case to case that is exactly what is already being done.

    We talk to managers of big companies and send letters to owners or CEO's. Small, local businesses get a personal talk or a letter.

    Where are these letters?

    Who wrote these letters?

    What is said in these letters?

    What companies were contacted, we need a list, not just I went here and they said in a 120 page post that some do not read in its entirety.

    Just a thought and an observation of "it is being handled", by whom, and we don't have to worry cause it is being handled.

    Not pointing fingers, just an observation of something needing to be addressed on a more formal basis, IMHO.
    Last edited by Rollbar; 03-16-2012 at 06:26 PM.

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    I haven't written any. I never had the need to. Perhaps another forum member will post. I know there's been a lot of letter writing down at the pointy end of the state.
    Hoka hey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    50 Views of this post.

    I guess it is not that important to get these/some businesses on board with our constitution and to help them realize our goal.
    It isn't that it isn't that important. It might be more that others may not agree with the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar
    Although we send a letter/some send. It needs to be organized and fed through a organization, a great opportunity for NFAC/NRA IMHO in Nevada to spear head and get noticed through out the USA.

    With a blanket letter ON A LETTER HEAD as of NFAC/NRA it will be noticed more IMHO, and, the letter can even be sent to the TV news stations, that will wake people up.
    The hard part is getting an organization to agree with you that it's a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar
    Talking to the manager MIGHT help, but they are not the owner/corporate office and can not make that kind of decision,except what they feel is right/based on non information from the owner half the time and he said she said/I think this is our policy etc.

    Again, just an observation.
    Many of the contacts that I have read about here are from cashiers, greeters, and/or managers, as those are the ones who see the OCer. Follow-ups are typically with owners. That is how Walmart's policy was propagated; by contacting corporate after managers tried to declare that 'no firearms is Walmart corporate policy.' It wasn't.

    The bare reality is that the number of OCers is below the grass at the store counter. It would likely have a similar impact as the Starbucks boycott had.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    Ok, so I don't think sending multiple letters to business owners will help by itself. I just thought of an idea that may help a lot. Get a thread with a list of businesses that we find are anti-gun, sticky the thread. Get a bunch of business cards that simply have the forum web address printed on it. When asked to leave because of a gun start handing out cards to the managers and other employees then leave. I feel that they will be less likely to shrug that off. Someone will get curious and look it up. This way they can go straight to our place and see how much they are losing and just how many people are OC'ers. I know on sites like vista print you can get tons of cards for very cheap. Just a thought. What do you guys think?
    Last edited by renoglock22; 03-16-2012 at 07:14 PM.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    In the AZ forum there was a thread that listed go and no go establishments. You might want to check that out and see how it works for them. I'm guessing other state forums have that too.

    The folks of this forum have done a pretty good job of letter writing. One recent example was with PT's. In fact with the letters they received, they invited a couple of OC's for a sit down on them at their place of business, and changed their corp policy. It does work.

    In my opinion in matters such as this, it is far better for them (the business) to hear from us, the people with the money to spend than from an organized group. Sometimes that makes them put their back against the wall and dig in.

    State or National Organizations are far better off spending their limited time and resources fighting in lobbying governments, and fight court cases. That is what they do best in my opinion.

    TBG
    Last edited by The Big Guy; 03-16-2012 at 07:59 PM.
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    IMHO it is not the idea getting people to agree (NRA/NFAC etc) it comes down to putting it on paper and telling the businesses that we as a group of people will not do business with you etc. Putting it on paper from an organization has better impact (just look at how it works w/Senators etc) than in a post on a forum that they do not read. Not agreeing w/the idea simply states to me, we do not have the guts to put our actions where our mouth is most of the time. Again, how hard it it to stand behind what is right and put it in writing.

    Do they ask if we belong to a organization, no. Do they ask if we will ever shop again, maybe, but 7 x out of 10 it is from a manager/clerk saying we can't carry, and the owner is not involved in said situation.

    How many owner would probably change their mind IF they knew they were loosing business in this economy?

    Putting it on paper/letterhead to me means someone/organization means business and will stand behind it, again, these people do not read the posts on who will give them business and who won't. Which business to avoid, and which not to avoid.

    Question, Do we need permission from the NRA or ?

    Seems simple to me. If we can write ones to the Govt, why not business to either educate them and or show them we stand united in this issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    IMHO it is not the idea getting people to agree (NRA/NFAC etc) it comes down to putting it on paper and telling the businesses that we as a group of people will not do business with you etc. Putting it on paper from an organization has better impact (just look at how it works w/Senators etc) than in a post on a forum that they do not read. Not agreeing w/the idea simply states to me, we do not have the guts to put our actions where our mouth is most of the time. Again, how hard it it to stand behind what is right and put it in writing.
    That is a bit of a stretch. The simple fact that some people do not agree with you, does NOT mean 'we do not have the guts to put our actions where our mouths is most of the time.'



    It just means that others do not agree with your perspective of the situation. Some of those who may not agree with you HAVE written letters, and voiced their concerns to business owners, AND 'voted with their feet,' AND sat with management (such as with PT), and assisted change for the better. For your above statement to be valid, you would need to completely ignore that reality.
    Last edited by wrightme; 03-17-2012 at 12:36 AM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  13. #13
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    IMHO it is not the idea getting people to agree (NRA/NFAC etc) it comes down to putting it on paper and telling the businesses that we as a group of people will not do business with you etc. Putting it on paper from an organization has better impact (just look at how it works w/Senators etc) than in a post on a forum that they do not read. Not agreeing w/the idea simply states to me, we do not have the guts to put our actions where our mouth is most of the time. Again, how hard it it to stand behind what is right and put it in writing.

    Do they ask if we belong to a organization, no. Do they ask if we will ever shop again, maybe, but 7 x out of 10 it is from a manager/clerk saying we can't carry, and the owner is not involved in said situation.

    How many owner would probably change their mind IF they knew they were loosing business in this economy?

    Putting it on paper/letterhead to me means someone/organization means business and will stand behind it, again, these people do not read the posts on who will give them business and who won't. Which business to avoid, and which not to avoid.

    Question, Do we need permission from the NRA or ?

    Seems simple to me. If we can write ones to the Govt, why not business to either educate them and or show them we stand united in this issue.

    Have you proposed this to the NVFAC? Would you be willing to spearhead it? It will need someone to keep track of it and be the contact point. Is that you?

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Nope haven't contacted anyone. I asked about letters written/who has written them, no concrete answers. I have not asked the NFAC or NRA. I am not a NRA member (use to be) nor will be. I support the NFAC. Yes I can spear head this and will need help, what help, that is where planning comes in and meetings w/the group etc./a proper letter written on the Groups letter head. Maybe I'm going about this wrong but I just don't understand why this issue has not been presented to said business in a formal setting just like the Groups do w/the Govt etc. I would like to see unity in the foreground, not in the background, but at least the unity is there.

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    As someone with 40+ years in the customer service/relations business I can offer you some "advice". You can take it for what it is worth. When a company/business receives a typed letter of a complaint with multiple signatures (say 20), they take it as a SINGULAR frontal attack, NOT (20) complaints. They feel it is 2-3 people who are pissed who got their friends/relatives to join in not knowing the whole story. There philosophy is BFD.

    Now on the other hand if they get (20) SEPARATE letters NOT saying the same exact words THEN it is a BIG DEAL. The reason is the form letter is from a GROUP. The (20) singular letters scare them because:

    !. The gun owners who write to complain about the OC policy have outliers.

    2. Is the letter writer telling his outliers ie: fellow gun club members, relatives, co-workers(gun owners), VFW friends, neighbors, shooting buddies, spouse(who tells her/his outliers), golfing buddies, etc.

    3. Now the (20) letters COULD possibly be 40, 60, 80, 100 etc people in the area who know about my OC policy, crappy food/service, lousy repairs or whatever.

    4. NOW you have their attention.

    This is how animal rights, civil rights and other leftist groups get companies to cave. The non profit sends 100 emails to their members with (5) canned letters, tells members pick one, print it, sign it and then mail it to the company's address. Then they email the next 100 members with slightly different letters, then so on and so on. The company gets hundreds to thousands of letters saying the same exact thing but worded differently in each subgroup.

    It has to go to the corporate decision maker. Most corporate CEOs don't get a lot of daily non business letters. A lot of them gets their attention. RIGHT AWAY. One of (2) things is going through their minds. We have a lot of happy customers OR we have a lot of pissed off customers.

    They now it is pissed off customers because happy customers very rarely write or call with praise. It gets the CEOs immediate attention. I have had to be the one to go to find out why we were getting bad reviews.

    Now if some one has a list of OC unfriendlys, I will write a letter representing myself.

    NAVYBLUE

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Great information and taken wisely. The "Group" needs to get together I would guess and do just what you said, get letters together of multiple wording etc and said "Group" can have them in the PC etc to print. Said "Group" using their paid membership to mail letters using part of their funds charged to said members. Some might say we can't or don't want to use funds from the "Group". As I look at these different groups, they usually charge the same fee per year (25 bucks), take 5 bucks from each payees subscription for this/other letter writing efforts for a start. In actuality, who came up w/the 25 dollar fees, seems to me some just follow others so they might get the members cause lets face it, if one charges more, others might not join. Just something that popped into my head, nothing scientific about it.

    Again, great ideas,
    Jim
    Last edited by Rollbar; 03-17-2012 at 01:46 AM.

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    Individuals have written such letters. Here is one example, a letter I wrote to Scheels in Reno/Sparks:
    February 23, 2009

    Scheels
    1200 Scheels Dr
    Sparks NV
    89434

    Gentlemen,

    It has come to my attention you have the following “no firearms” policy (as stated in Store Leader Larry Theis’ letter of October 31, 2008) in your Reno store.

    Quote

    "For the concern and safety of all our customers, we do not allow customers to "Open Carry" at Scheels unless they are licensed to do so by a Federal, State and/or Local Law Enforcement Agency and they are in possession of proper identification."

    Unquote

    In a recent telephone conversation, an assistant store leader indicated this policy limits open carry to sworn law enforcement officers. He further indicated that open carry might alarm customers. I personally disagree with that as I have open carried in many businesses locally and across northern Nevada. One need not worry about lawful firearms carriers – it is the criminal element with which we must be concerned, and the criminal element cares not about laws or policies.

    Further, your stated policy does not address private citizens with valid Nevada Concealed Firearms Permits. Do you allow properly licensed private citizens to carry concealed firearms while patronizing your place of business?

    Everyone must recognize your right to implement policy. However, I would appreciate clarification.

    Along with untold numbers of law abiding and 2nd Amendment loving Nevada citizens, I would like to know if I should redirect my shopping excursions to other, more “gun friendly,” businesses.

    I anxiously await your reply.
    I cannot find follow-up correspondence, but as I recall, Scheel's did not rescind their policy, citing the land owners policy. I've refrained from doing business there.

    I recall threads here or at nevadashooters concerning businesses that do not respect firearms rights.

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    I don't know how successful your letter was, to Scheels, or maybe it has been time and exposure that changes things, but I OC'd at Scheels on Wednesday. Saw/talked to many Scheels employees, while shopping. I've also OC'd in Jazz, Nike, another shoe store, I can't recall the name and at Best Buy. All on the Legends property. Nobody said a word.

    Maybe I've been lucky. I'm still yet to see the No Firearms sign. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough. ;o)

    If I do get stopped, and asked to leave, I'll write a letter to the Legends Main Office and to the retail establishment.
    Hoka hey

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    Excellent.

    When I wrote that letter, Scheel's indicated the would not change their policy (or could not change due to property owner's policy.)

    Maybe things have changed.

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    Sometimes trying to change a situation can have an undesirable effect. We are not going to change 100% of the peoples minds. In fact I see some good arguments for not trying to change anti's minds:

    1. You end up supporting a business that may be turning over a portion of their new found profits to Anti gun candidates, or the Brady campaign.
    2. As long as their are pro gun businesses to support, You are doing a disservice to them by trying to support their competition.
    3. If a manager or owner is already nervous of guns, the chances of a 911 call increase, putting everyone at risk.

    That being said, I think PT's was a success, and we need to look for those kinds of opportunitys, while not forgetting our true friends.

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    All good answers and I apologize if I offended anyone. That was not my intention. Its just frustrating some times. A combined group is still beneficial to the effort I would think.

    Jim

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    No offense taken at all... I appreciate you have the "hubs locked in" and are pushing forward I still say we can convert some, just not all... I am not trying to be a buzz kill either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    All good answers and I apologize if I offended anyone. That was not my intention. Its just frustrating some times. A combined group is still beneficial to the effort I would think.

    Jim
    A combined group is good, but each person in that combined group is more effective sending their OWN letter, as opposed to one blanket letter from a group of people, IMHO>
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    A combined group is good, but each person in that combined group is more effective sending their OWN letter, as opposed to one blanket letter from a group of people, IMHO>
    +1

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    A combined group is good, but each person in that combined group is more effective sending their OWN letter, as opposed to one blanket letter from a group of people, IMHO>
    Yes agreed as we talked about before. The "group" would be a spear head group to e-mail different letters to people so they can have it on their PC to send out as individuals. Maybe on a specific web site and member log in to retrieve said letter to down load. Just a thought.

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