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Thread: This is how to handle an interaction...

  1. #1
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    This is how to handle an interaction...

    I don't know where this is from, by the twang I would guess "not here". I would think this is the proper way to handle a police interaction. I good training tool.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0En_sdsyh1M

    Edited to add a New Mexico interaction. Also awesome...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXwP0...eature=related
    Last edited by amzbrady; 03-17-2012 at 05:24 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    If a cop withdraws to confer with anybody who is not physically at the scene you can pretty much guarantee they already know they are on shakey ground at best.

    Some states do have "stop and ID" laws that require you to produce your identity document. Other states have laws that merely require you to state your true name and place of residence when asked to ID yourself to the cops. It's important to know what your state's law says. Not even going to open up the can of worms that goes with some states' requirement to have a permission slip to OC.

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  3. #3
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    If a cop withdraws to confer with anybody who is not physically at the scene you can pretty much guarantee they already know they are on shakey ground at best.

    Some states do have "stop and ID" laws that require you to produce your identity document. Other states have laws that merely require you to state your true name and place of residence when asked to ID yourself to the cops. It's important to know what your state's law says. Not even going to open up the can of worms that goes with some states' requirement to have a permission slip to OC.

    stay safe.
    All those state rule, laws, and regulations are probably being discussed in their own individual forums. Check em out for us and keep us posted.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    If a cop withdraws to confer with anybody who is not physically at the scene you can pretty much guarantee they already know they are on shakey ground at best.

    Some states do have "stop and ID" laws that require you to produce your identity document. Other states have laws that merely require you to state your true name and place of residence when asked to ID yourself to the cops. It's important to know what your state's law says. Not even going to open up the can of worms that goes with some states' requirement to have a permission slip to OC.

    stay safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    All those state rule, laws, and regulations are probably being discussed in their own individual forums. Check em out for us and keep us posted.
    Further, MOST of those only come in to play AFTER there is 'reasonable suspicion' of a crime either in progress, or completed. Otherwise, stating your name upon request/demand isn't necessary or required by law; though cops may believe it is, and/or try to get the subject to believe it is required.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  5. #5
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Interesting that the officer went from asking for a permit, to identification, to a DL, to asking his age. The officer never asked the guy to identify himself by name (which may or may not be required where he lives anyway). The funny thing is, the guy behind the camera seemed prepared to defend that question with the one he asked anyway about the nature of the officer's inquiry.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    These videos appear to be more about how to go looking for a conflict with law enforcement instead of dealing with law enforcement encounters as ones goes about their normal daily routine.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    These videos appear to be more about how to go looking for a conflict with law enforcement instead of dealing with law enforcement encounters as ones goes about their normal daily routine.
    You sound like ex-leo.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    You sound like ex-leo.
    LOL, do you really feel these encounters would have occurred unless the open carrier approached and made contact?
    I am not saying all the information in these videos do not have some value but feel it was sought after instead of normal daily contact.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Why shouldn't citizens proactively police the police?

    These guys did good. Notice how the cops in the 2nd video break the law by trying to coerce the OC'er into surrendering his ID.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Now days the camera can be a better weapon when it comes to LEO. If not for the camera, these interactions could have gotten violent as alot have. We need a can defend law here when it comes to LEO. I dont like the idea an officer can come up on an open carrier with a firearm drawn down on them. Why can LEO brandish against a law abiding citizen with a lawfully holstered firearm. LEO needs some serious retraining and new regulations set upon them. They are litterally getting away with MURDER now days.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Nicely done, although it would have been helpful for them to cite terry since they were being detained illegally without RAS of a crime.
    +thought for the day+
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  12. #12
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Why shouldn't citizens proactively police the police?

    These guys did good. Notice how the cops in the 2nd video break the law by trying to coerce the OC'er into surrendering his ID.
    Who watches the watchers....WE watch the watchers.
    Aren't officers there to serve the people and are we not the People?

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Who watches the watchers....WE watch the watchers.
    Aren't officers there to serve the people and are we not the People?
    Exactly and it's why Amzbrady said the other poster sounded like a cop. Do some people go about it in a way I would yep, but it isn't "confrontational" (police boiler plate word on just about every report I have read where a civilian took a stance for rights) to proactively police the police.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    After watching the first video, I would disagree that it represents the proper way to handle the situation. It demonstrates the WRONG way. The person making the video was not just going about his day to day business while open carrying a handgun, but rather was looking to create a confrontation where there wasn't one already while open carrying a handgun. While it's true the cop was off base, the 'victim' was looking for drama. That was never what the open carry movement was about here in Washington.

    Which segues nicely into why doing what that guy did might not be such a good idea here in Washington. Approaching a police encounter already in progress while OC would certainly fall close enough to the time/place/manner/circumstance to get you arrested, and close enough that you'll never recover any $$$ even if they decline to prosecute.

    Beside that, he waited a full minute after the encounter began to ask if the officer was detaining him.
    Last edited by Mainsail; 03-19-2012 at 11:55 AM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    some situations

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    After watching the first video, I would disagree that it represents the proper way to handle the situation. It demonstrates the WRONG way. The person making the video was not just going about his day to day business while open carrying a handgun, but rather was looking to create a confrontation where there wasn't one already while open carrying a handgun. While it's true the cop was off base, the 'victim' was looking for drama. That was never what the open carry movement was about here in Washington.

    Which segues nicely into why doing what that guy did might not be such a good idea here in Washington. Approaching a police encounter already in progress while OC would certainly fall close enough to the time/place/manner/circumstance to get you arrested, and close enough that you'll never recover any $$$ even if they decline to prosecute.

    Beside that, he waited a full minute after the encounter began to ask if the officer was detaining him.
    In some circumstances it might get him shot. Please don't Burke me!!
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    I guess no one else read the description on the YouTube page. Apparently the were part of a rally outside an abortion clinic. The police came to them.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    After watching the first video, I would disagree that it represents the proper way to handle the situation. It demonstrates the WRONG way. The person making the video was not just going about his day to day business while open carrying a handgun, but rather was looking to create a confrontation where there wasn't one already while open carrying a handgun. While it's true the cop was off base, the 'victim' was looking for drama. That was never what the open carry movement was about here in Washington.
    Exactly, there are some in this state and on this forum that still do not understand. I know of a few that want to go interact with police, that want to 'be seen' by police and that want that attention. IMHO that is not what OCDO Washington is about. Should you be prepared if you encounter the police, yes.
    Live Free or Die!

  18. #18
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I didnt post this caring HOW OR WHAT caused the interaction. It doesnt matter HOW or WHAT caused the interaction. What matters is that the police pushed the interaction without RAS. It shouldnt matter if you are carrying a firearm or not. I posted this admiring how they handled the interaction. I dont think anyone should seek an interaction, but if it happens, just like it did to Tom Brewster, it is good to see someone handleing it properly. I seem to remember alot of us showed our support by assemblying at starbucks afterwards. I dont think many of us saw it as a support for our second amendment, we just happened to be carrying while showing or support of our 4th amendment.
    Last edited by amzbrady; 03-19-2012 at 03:08 PM.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    I guess no one else read the description on the YouTube page. Apparently the were part of a rally outside an abortion clinic. The police came to them.
    ^This.

    Unless an open carrier goes into a police station and dares the cops to arrest him, he is not "looking for a confrontation."

    The police unnecessarily, and unfortunately, interject their unwanted selves into every area of normal American life.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
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    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Exactly, there are some in this state and on this forum that still do not understand. I know of a few that want to go interact with police, that want to 'be seen' by police and that want that attention. IMHO that is not what OCDO Washington is about. Should you be prepared if you encounter the police, yes.
    Who? I know you might name Eric, but you said "some" plural. Who else?

    OCDO is about normalizing gun carry. If some would normally police the police who cares?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    ^This.

    Unless an open carrier goes into a police station and dares the cops to arrest him, he is not "looking for a confrontation."

    The police unnecessarily, and unfortunately, interject their unwanted selves into every area of normal American life.
    Some people will just insist that any citizen wanting to actively police the police are 'confrontational'. I don't hold that belief. And no one that I know of on OCDO or in Washington has done this. Regardless of what some may claim.

    I went to a police station to lodge a complaint about an illegal arrest/detainment for OC'ing, I continued to do so OC'ing . I was then promptly illegally detained/arrested again......cops and statist think it was "confrontational" I think I was just doing what I had the right to do. The city then paid me not to take them to federal court....a small victory for our side.

    Terms some people use like "confrontational" are very subjective terms and used more as ad hominem attack.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I went to a police station to lodge a complaint about an illegal arrest/detainment for OC'ing, I continued to do so OC'ing . I was then promptly illegally detained/arrested again......cops and statist think it was "confrontational" I think I was just doing what I had the right to do. The city then paid me not to take them to federal court....a small victory for our side.
    Certainly, carrying into any government building in which you have business or in which you are exercising your 1A rights to protest and/or petition the government to seek redress of grievances should be considered part of normal life. I was referring only to a person who goes into a police station with the sole purpose of verbally daring officers to arrest him. I haven't seen anything like that either, and even if I did, as long as no laws are broken, the police have no legitimate power to detain or otherwise mistreat him.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Hardbuck90's Avatar
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    SVG what you did was completely legal and you were in the right, I have a problem with the first video, or more so about how the fellow goes about it. Yes he may be within his rights but he sounds nervous as all get out and he should have never retreated, he should have stood his ground when the officer first approached and then when the officer walked away he followed after and continues to ask if he is being detained. Makes me think of someone who just found about OC and the laws regarding and is just out to make a point

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardbuck90 View Post
    SVG what you did was completely legal and you were in the right, I have a problem with the first video, or more so about how the fellow goes about it. Yes he may be within his rights but he sounds nervous as all get out and he should have never retreated, he should have stood his ground when the officer first approached and then when the officer walked away he followed after and continues to ask if he is being detained. Makes me think of someone who just found about OC and the laws regarding and is just out to make a point
    Yea I think the guy could have handled it better. I still don't fault him though. When you are in a coercive situation and determined to stand up for your rights against someone that has the full weight of the state behind him....you get a little nervous....it does get easier the more it happens though...

    t
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    OCDO is about normalizing gun carry...........
    I am one of those people that OC all the time. Now I do not mean that I do this thing regularly, I do it constantly. Some people, for whatever reason, OC for part of the day, some just occasionally. The young man in video 1 seemed to be a part timer and he was a bit nervous. He seemed to handle it well and he did not get "Birked". I, personally, would not have attempted to chase him down to ask if I was being detained. The majority of the population will support you, a few are afraid of you. If you are a "normal" person in your actions people will assume you are "normal"(whatever the hell that means). Be Calm, Carry On
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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