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Thread: ATK Secures .40 Caliber Ammo Contract with DHS, ICE. WSJ Market Watch 03/12

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    ATK Secures .40 Caliber Ammo Contract with DHS, ICE. WSJ Market Watch 03/12

    https://secure.marketwatch.com/story...k=MW_news_stmp
    Quote Originally Posted by WSJ
    --ATK Wins Five-Year, Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity Contract for .40 Caliber Ammunition from DHS, ICE --Additional .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with 450 Million Round Potential Demonstrates ATK's Leadership in Ammunition Manufacturing. [ ... ] ATK was the incumbent and won the contract with its HST bullet, which has proven itself in the field. The special hollow point effectively passes through a variety of barriers and holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration.
    https://thecentristpoint.wordpress.c...er-ammunition/
    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist Point
    Why Did The DHS Just Order 450 Million Rounds Of .40 Caliber Ammunition? The Department of Homeland security has just executed an order for enough rounds of 40 caliber ammunition to kill every man, woman and child in the United States.
    Gun control through supply and demand economic control.

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    Regular Member yz9890's Avatar
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    so that's why it's near impossible to find HST's.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    The Department of Homeland security has just executed an order for enough rounds of 40 caliber ammunition to kill every man, woman and child in the United States.


    Maybe that's the plan... and they'd still have 150,000,000 rounds to play with. Pax...
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    This reminds me of...

    Something I found interesting in March of 2010 - in a perplexing way. The U.S. Department of Education in Chicago, Illinois felt a need for 27 Remington Model 870 pump-action shotguns, with 14" barrels (4.1" shorter than the ones you or I could legally buy without a federal tax stamp) and Ghost Ring rear sights, at a cost of $35,000 when the country was in a financial crunch. That works out to $1296.30 per shotgun. (For full details on this story see: [URL=http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=7326068.[/URL] IF it's still available)

    First, I have to wonder WHY the "Department of Education" felt a need for combat-ready riot shotguns. Are the kids in Chicago that dangerous? Then I have to question their sense of fiscal responsibility and integrity, when it comes to fraud, waste and abuse. A similar Mossberg Model 500 "Cruiser" shotgun can be had for $435 RETAIL, with the exception of the 14" improved cylinder barrel (which Mossberg could probably have modified an 18.5" barrel to satisfy that requirement for almost no charge). Just for arguments sake let's say Mossberg would sell their modified 500 Cruiser model to the government for $400 (and I'm certain that it would have been considerably less), which calculates to just $10,800 - for a net savings of $24,200. Or could it be political cronyism at work? Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-21-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    First, I have to wonder WHY the "Department of Education" felt a need for combat-ready riot shotguns. Are the kids in Chicago that dangerous?

    You're obviously not familiar with the Chicago public school system...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    ammo production is not limited. It can be quickly wramped up and down.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    DHS Is Not Just Increasing Their .40cal Stockpile...

    Here's a related little something extra from BusinessInsider.com -
    We've also learned that the Department has an open bid for a stockpile of rifle ammo. Listed on the federal business opportunities network, they're looking for up to 175 million rounds of .223 caliber ammo to be exact. The .223 is almost exactly the same round used by NATO forces, the 5.56 x 45mm.

    The deadline for earlier this month was extended because the right contractor just hadn't come along.

    Looks like the Department of Homeland Security means business.


    These are military sized ammo requirements! Is DHS/ICE expecting an invasion?
    Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Here's a related little something extra from BusinessInsider.com -

    These are military sized ammo requirements! Is DHS/ICE expecting an invasion?
    Pax...
    First, ICE is dealing with a constant invasion by hostile forces. Second, what does military sized mean? The number of federal agents that are issued weapons in DHS is enormous and they are another one of the illegal federal armies, so why what would you expect? Third, its not alot of ammo for DOD...
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    First, ICE is dealing with a constant invasion by hostile forces. Second, what does military sized mean? The number of federal agents that are issued weapons in DHS is enormous and they are another one of the illegal federal armies, so why what would you expect? Third, its not alot of ammo for DOD...
    First: Probably 99.9% of the ICE agents never fire their gun other than for qualification. (If they do shoot an "invader" they are liable to be sent to prison - as were BPAs Campeon and Ramos, for shooting that drug dealer in the buttocks. Their conviction and incarceration in that case has had a serious "chilling effect" on the Border Patrol and ICE.)

    Second: Military sized - as I used it - means large enough to satisfy the needs of a military force, perhaps up to and including Battalion level. What was so difficult to understand about that? If all 170,000 DHS personnel were pistol-packing LE's (which they aren't), 450,000,000 rounds of ammo would provide each one with 2,647.1 rounds. With the exception of MG crews and (possibly) M249 SAW operators, none of our individual military personnel carries anywhere near that amount of ammunition. And 170,000 people is almost three times the number of our military personnel deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

    Third: The Department of Homeland Security consists of the following agencies:
    Customs and Border Protection (armed but impotent)
    Federal Emergency Management Agency (we can only hope that they aren't armed)
    Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    Transportation Security Administration (includes Federal Air Marshals)
    U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
    U.S. Coast Guard
    U.S. Secret Service
    Office of Inspector General (Probably unarmed when not performing inspections)

    I could find no statistics on any of the individual agency's LE or administrative/support manning, so who has what and how many is a moot point. We could guess, but why bother?

    My point being, that it is an outrageous amount of ammunition for any agency outside of our military. The DHS is NOT the DOD. Some elected official in D.C. must own stock in the Federal Cartridge Company. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-30-2012 at 10:38 PM.
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    Have you found any comparison between this contract vs. those contracts with any other Federal Agencies- F.B.I., etc, to know whether this is terribly outside the norm?
    I doubt there's any conspiracy here (the Black Helos happen to be grounded , for the moment), but they may be allocating enough ammunition to equip their officers and agents across serveral different agencies, nation-wide, including use for training.

    Or, who knows? Maybe they got some solid intel on an imminent invasion by the U.N.'s massive Legions of Death, supported by simultaneous invasions by Russia, Mexico and Canada, all in an effort to conceal the real story behind the U.F.O.s and the plot to impliment a One Currency worldwide..

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Have you found any comparison between this contract vs. those contracts with any other Federal Agencies- F.B.I., etc, to know whether this is terribly outside the norm? I doubt there's any conspiracy here (the Black Helos happen to be grounded , for the moment), but they may be allocating enough ammunition to equip their officers and agents across serveral different agencies, nation-wide, including use for training.
    No, but please feel free to do that kind of time-consuming research yourself. (I see black helos daily here - I live very close to a small airport where they teach people to fly fixed wing aircraft and choppers - of which some are black.)

    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Or, who knows? Maybe they got some solid intel on an imminent invasion by the U.N.'s massive Legions of Death, supported by simultaneous invasions by Russia, Mexico and Canada, all in an effort to conceal the real story behind the U.F.O.s and the plot to impliment a One Currency worldwide..

    Yeah... that's undoubtedly it. Pax...


    P.S. DHS published total manpower of 170,000 is enough to dispatch 3,400 to each of the 50 states... and they're hiring more. Not even a tiny bit worried?
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-31-2012 at 01:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    No, but please feel free to do that kind of time-consuming research yourself. (I see black helos daily here - I live very close to a small airport where they teach people to fly fixed wing aircraft and choppers - of which some are black.)



    Yeah... that's undoubtedly it. Pax...


    P.S. DHS published total manpower of 170,000 is enough to dispatch 3,400 to each of the 50 states... and they're hiring more. Not even a tiny bit worried?
    Not in the least. Mostly from the perspective of knowing more than a few active, mid-level and and even senior-level DHS and ICE agents very personally, and going back many years (prior to their employment with these agencies) as collegues, fellow troops, and co-workers.
    I can say this much- they've seen this, and other such comments like these above- and laugh to the point of nearly wetting their pants. No matter what some yahoos at the Upper tiers of such agencies may contemplate or even fantasize about, the reality remains that the agencies themselves are in such dis-array, internally, that they would be hard-pressed to organize anything more nefarious than a bake sale on the best of days.
    The ways in which many agents are utilized, deployed, etc. on a day-to-day basis is so overwhelmingly backwards, contradictory and micro-managed would make such concerns out-right laughable.
    They often comment on the possibility of writing, and trying to produce a television Sitcom on the realities of it all, once they retire-or as is more likely the case in the current budget-get forcibly retired..

    No, the reality is that most of their days are almost entirely consumed with activities pertaining to hiding/dodging "the man", trying to look as busy as possible, and covering their asses from some of the most mundane, petty and idiotic in-house policies to focus very much attention on John Q. Public. Like most working folks these days-at any level- most are just trudging along trying to "their job" and ,hopefully, make it to the next pay check.


    And FEMA? really? lol. Ask a lot of the hurricane/tornado victims in the last serveral years if the folks at FEMA have the ability to find thier way to and from the nearest men's room, much less be of any significant assistance following a disaster, much less rounding us up to put us in detention camps as so many whackaloons theorize about..

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    3000 rounds a year is not alot. That is only a box of 250 each month, so one trip to the range a month for practice.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    And FEMA? really? lol. Ask a lot of the hurricane/tornado victims in the last serveral years if the folks at FEMA have the ability to find thier way to and from the nearest men's room, much less be of any significant assistance following a disaster, much less rounding us up to put us in detention camps as so many whackaloons theorize about..
    Which is exactly why my post says: "Federal Emergency Management Agency (we can only hope that they aren't armed)" (additional emph added). FEMA is about as useful and productive as the U.N. Pax...
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