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Thread: Justice Department, FBI to probe shooting death of Florida teen

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Justice Department, FBI to probe shooting death of Florida teen

    I know that there is already a thread on this shooting but this article brings up many new topics of discussion.

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...trayvon-martin

    How is the FBI getting involved in a state case? Personally, I think this was a bad shoot but it should be handled at the local/state level.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    If you physically injure/kill someone you have, among other things, violated their civil rights. You do not have to be a government entity/employee to commit this crime. The FBI investigates civil rights abuse cases. Both circumstances have been the way things are ever since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.

    There are folks from all three sides of the fence who are both sitting in a federal prison and under obligation as part of their sentencing to pay large sums of money in compensation for violating the civil rights of those they injured/killed. Not that there's a tinker's chance they will ever actually pay the first penny.

    Hope this basic explanation helps.,

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    double tap
    Last edited by skidmark; 03-20-2012 at 02:25 AM.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Zimmerman is in hot water, IMO. Zimmerman, "F*cking C00ns" 2:22.

    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 03-20-2012 at 10:58 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Zimmerman is in hot water, IMO. Zimmerman, "F*cking C00ns" 2:22.

    I agree that he is in hot water. As new information continues to come to light it just looks worse and worse for him.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    I agree that he is in hot water. As new information continues to come to light it just looks worse and worse for him.
    And the police department. Although, the police department will get off, Zimmerman won't. Murder under Federal hate crime is life in prison, from what I understand.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    And the police department. Although, the police department will get off, Zimmerman won't. Murder under Federal hate crime is life in prison, from what I understand.
    Still not sure why people are saying he is white. He certainly looks Hispanic to me. I mean it could be a hate crime either way, but still.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 03-21-2012 at 12:52 AM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Still not sure why people are saying he is white. He certainly looks Hispanic to me.
    He is Hispanic. Sharpton was referring to Zimmerman as white; then again, Sharpton only sees black, and white, IMO. Hate crimes aren't geared towards whites only even though it might seem to be the case.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 03-21-2012 at 12:55 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    The "Media" was first o refer to the shooter as White

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    He is Hispanic. Sharpton was referring to Zimmerman as white; then again, Sharpton only sees black, and white, IMO. Hate crimes aren't geared towards whites only even though it might seem to be the case.
    This is not about Sharpton, this is about a person that chose to confront a teenager walking through the neighbor and ending up shooting him for what appears unjustified reasons. IMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by RegalNC View Post
    This is not about Sharpton, this is about a person that chose to confront a teenager walking through the neighbor and ending up shooting him for what appears unjustified reasons. IMHO
    Guys, let's let the facts be presented before we rush to judgement. Or we're no better than Sharpton and his ilk.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Ya know, it's a blatant example of hypocrisy whereby everyone is harping on the fact the kid was black and that the reasons for Zimmerman's suspicions were possibly based on his race, all the while automatically assuming that Zimmerman is white.

    People are focusing too much on the wrong things. All that matters is how the fight started and why he followed the boy. It seems pretty clear why he followed the boy, so all that's left of importance is what happened during the confrontation.

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    Rodney King riot on its way?

    The flames are being fanned by CSGV and other anti-gun groups, blaming this on "Stand your Ground" law. They're lovin' it.

    This is a bit of reason in a sea of irrationality: http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspo...zimmerman.html

  13. #13
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doble Troble View Post
    This is a bit of reason in a sea of irrationality: http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspo...zimmerman.html
    I agree. Good read.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doble Troble View Post
    The flames are being fanned by CSGV and other anti-gun groups, blaming this on "Stand your Ground" law. They're lovin' it.

    This is a bit of reason in a sea of irrationality: http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspo...zimmerman.html
    I am watching MSNBC right now, the host is giving me a freaking heachache.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I am watching MSNBC right now, the host is giving me a freaking heachache.

    The media has already started dancing in the blood of young Mr. Martin, saying that FL's "Stand Your Ground" law is a "crazy self-defense law"...

    When Lawrence O'Donnell used that phrase "crazy self-defense law" (2:56) tonight and called the spread of this law through the USA a "contagion" (1:18), I nearly threw my dinner at the TV. (I've included time stamps for Beretta92FSLady)

    http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-...3754/#46803754

    I guess they don't remember WHY the "stand your ground" laws were pushed through in the first place--it was a way to allow women who were the victims of domestic abuse to use lethal force in self-defense against their crazy abusive husbands. Previously, it was not legally acceptable for a wife to use lethal force against her husband--even in self-defense--in their own home. The "Stand Your Ground" laws changed that.

    But now, the media trying to paint SYG laws as if they are some sort of "license to kill", which is a blatant lie. They are demonizing this law and saying that the LAW caused the shooting, and the LAW is "shielding" the shooter. More lies and logical fallacies...

    This shoot has a LOT of unanswered questions. Did the victim confront the shooter when he was approached, or did he just keep walking. Was the victim beligerent, or did he physically respond in any way? Did he make verbal threats? We don't know, and probably never will...

    I find it difficult to believe that there was no real investigation done. Perhaps the Prosecutor, Norman Wolfinger, has some sort of personal connection with the shooter or his father.

    After all, Sanford PD and the Brevard/Seminole County--18th Circuit Court Prosecutor's office is sort of known for this sort of judicial mismanagement...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 03-21-2012 at 10:12 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Ya know, it's a blatant example of hypocrisy whereby everyone is harping on the fact the kid was black and that the reasons for Zimmerman's suspicions were possibly based on his race, all the while automatically assuming that Zimmerman is white.
    I fail to see what the one has to do with the other. Zimmerman looks pretty obviously hispanic to me anyway; I wonder if you're not assuming that people are assuming he's white.

    Everyone knows that there is no racial discord between the hispanic and black communities, right? None whatsoever.

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    I really don't understand how the stand your ground law could possibly cover Zimmerman when Zimmerman was the one who stalked and murdered the teenager... the teenager would be the one that would be covered under the stand your ground law since he was being stalked by an armed murderer, he had the right to defend himself... Zimmerman did not have the right to stalk and murder the kid. I just don't understand why Zimmerman would in any way, shape or form be shielded from prosecution by that law. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
    Last edited by Z1P2; 03-21-2012 at 11:07 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The media has already started dancing in the blood of young Mr. Martin, saying that FL's "Stand Your Ground" law is a "crazy self-defense law"...

    When Lawrence O'Donnell used that phrase "crazy self-defense law" (2:56) tonight and called the spread of this law through the USA a "contagion" (1:18), I nearly threw my dinner at the TV. (I've included time stamps for Beretta92FSLady)

    [snip]
    First, I can't stand O'Donnell. Second, hearing him relating "stand your ground" to this particular shooting is disingenuous but I have to trust that listeners to his nonsense like that don't buy into the sh*t.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    SNIP Zimmerman looks pretty obviously hispanic to me anyway; I wonder if you're not assuming that people are assuming he's white.
    Not at all, early news stories reported that the police were saying that he was white. In addition, all of the early media coverage indicated that Zimmerman was white. I think just about everyone now knows that he is Hispanic.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Florida screwed the pooch

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    I know that there is already a thread on this shooting but this article brings up many new topics of discussion.

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...trayvon-martin

    How is the FBI getting involved in a state case? Personally, I think this was a bad shoot but it should be handled at the local/state level.
    Whereas neither the local or state law encorcement agencies investigated, it has fallen to the FBI to investigate why they have not done their job and because the young man's civil rights were violatyed by his death. There is also the minor problem of the media winding up the "black community" against everyone because the "white man" didn't get arrested as he should have.

    In simple terms, Florida screwed the pooch and the feds have to fix it again.

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    It never is

    Quote Originally Posted by RegalNC View Post
    This is not about Sharpton, this is about a person that chose to confront a teenager walking through the neighbor and ending up shooting him for what appears unjustified reasons. IMHO
    It never is about Big Al, but you can bet he will turn it into being about him.

    Sharpton is a racist pig that has lied and been busted for it many times.

    Only a fool listens to the idiot.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    [snip]
    In simple terms, Florida screwed the pooch and the feds have to fix it again.
    Isn't it ironic...don't you think.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    seen a few reports that 1 or 2 witness seen the black kid on top of Zimmerman while beating the hell out of him, It was zimmerman screaming for help, that explains the blood on the back of his head and the bloody or broken nose.

    This kid was a football player, that photo was when he was 8, He could have out ran Zimmerman fat ass easily, but choose to tackle him.
    Last edited by lowlux; 03-22-2012 at 03:06 PM.

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    there are about 300+ out of state black people in the town right now, We could have a 1990s LA style riot if they don't convict him, Which i don't think they will or can.

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    I posted this in the other thread.

    What I have learned about this case so far:
    Z = Zimmerman M= Martin

    Just the facts as we know it.

    1) Z called the police to report a suspicious person. Was told it was not needed to follow him, and said "ok" in response.
    2) M saw that someone was following him and was on the phone with his girlfriend who has corroborated that M ran, and lost site of Z.
    3) Z while on the phone with Non-Emergency police line said he lost the kid.
    4) At some point later 911 calls roll in, and a direct witness comes outside to see M on top of Z and Z crying for someone to help him. This is recorded on another persons 911 call.
    5) Z claims M confronted him and attacked him, got him on his back and would not relent the attack after Z, and a neighbor yelled for him to stop.
    6) The eye witness did not see the beginning of the fight, and went inside before the end of the confrontation and never saw the gun in play, within 30 seconds of the witness going inside the shot is heard.
    7) Z was bleeding from the back of his head, from his nose, and had grass stains on his back. (no info on any possible injuries for M, coroners report would provide this once it is available)
    8) All of the facts have not been made public, but all of the original witness statements corroborate Z's statement (per the police). (except for the people like Cruncher who changed there story days later)

    This is all we the public know at this time, and it is why probable cause for Z's arrest has not been established. The biggest problem with trying to judge this case is the huge gap in knowledge between #3, and #5. Which is where all of the real legal questions live. Police may have more information than this, but so far no arrest, which makes me believe if there is additional info, it is not anything which contradicts Z's account.
    Last edited by Xulld; 03-22-2012 at 03:45 PM.

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