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Thread: UN Arms Treaty

  1. #1
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    UN Arms Treaty

    This is another Senate Bill I think we should get behind and show support for. It is not carry related but right to own related.

    http://moran.senate.gov/public/index...f-eb9366f741f2
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    This the bazillionth thread I've seen on this, and I have yet to read any actual text from the treaty that would threaten the civilian firearms trade. Your link says that the treaty is supposed to be finalized in July, but even if that happens, the Senate will have to ratify it.

    If this is a real threat, I'd like to see some evidence, and I will fight hard against it. If not, there are plenty of real threats for us to expend our time and energy on.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Any threat is worth looking into. Ask anyone who thought that something was or wasn't, and got hurt or screwed when they found out otherwise.

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Any threat is worth looking into. Ask anyone who thought that something was or wasn't, and got hurt or screwed when they found out otherwise.
    I agree, but people have been looking into this, on this forum and other places, for over a year, and I have yet to see actual text from the actual treaty that would impact civilian firearms ownership or commerce. Even if it did, the Senate would have to ratify.

    Even the link posted by the OP admitted that it is only because of calls from other countries to add language that there is any cause for concern. Well, other countries call for things all the time, and unless it's Israel doing the calling, we generally dance to our own tune (see: Global War on Terror, Global War on Some Drugs, etc.).
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    I too have been waiting. Tinfoil hat time, I dont know what I think about the whole UN situation, but it stinks. IO dont trust the .gov or the UN. They dont do what we want, they dont care what we want. I have been watching my country vaporize on youtube for quite sometime, and they arent building FEMA camps and training foreign soldiers on American soil for nothing. I don't think theres a coincidence in the recent upsurge of survival shows and prepping shows either.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I too have been waiting. Tinfoil hat time, I dont know what I think about the whole UN situation, but it stinks. IO dont trust the .gov or the UN. They dont do what we want, they dont care what we want. I have been watching my country vaporize on youtube for quite sometime, and they arent building FEMA camps and training foreign soldiers on American soil for nothing. I don't think theres a coincidence in the recent upsurge of survival shows and prepping shows either.
    I can't disagree with any of this.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    This the bazillionth thread I've seen on this, and I have yet to read any actual text from the treaty that would threaten the civilian firearms trade. Your link says that the treaty is supposed to be finalized in July, but even if that happens, the Senate will have to ratify it.

    If this is a real threat, I'd like to see some evidence, and I will fight hard against it. If not, there are plenty of real threats for us to expend our time and energy on.
    You're saying you'll trust our legislatures not do ratify an antigun treaty? Or more so...you trust our legislature!?!?!?!?!
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    I dont.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    You're saying you'll trust our legislatures not do ratify an antigun treaty? Or more so...you trust our legislature!?!?!?!?!
    Obviously not.

    I was merely pointing out that we'll have a chance to lobby them at that point, if and when this is shown to be more than rumormongering, and if and when the Senate is put in the position of ratifying it.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    If they do something like this, trust me, you will NOT get to voice your opinion on it. We'll be lucky if we have anything but a few hours warning, if any at all.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    If they do something like this, trust me, you will NOT get to voice your opinion on it. We'll be lucky if we have anything but a few hours warning, if any at all.
    Pretty much. Besides it's not like anyone in the Senate is against the 2nd amendment. They just believe there should be reasonable enough restrictions that it's impossible to own a firearm unless you're a cop or rich #newyorkcity
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  12. #12
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    [snipI have been watching my country vaporize on youtube for quite sometime, and they arent building FEMA camps and training foreign soldiers on American soil for nothing. [snip]
    Please, link us up. I want to read where the Federal Government is setting up FEMA camps, and training foreign soldiers on American soil.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Obviously not.

    I was merely pointing out that we'll have a chance to lobby them at that point, if and when this is shown to be more than rumormongering, and if and when the Senate is put in the position of ratifying it.

    Him waiting to get the word out until the matter is in the senate would be a little on the late side, especially since this is a matter that so many other countries have a direct interest in. I wont profess to speak for the world but most of the countries involved would love for this to become law in our country. And it goes way beyond just guns, it cover parts, and by default accessories to guns. And ammo as well. Also look who will be attending! The top ten of the worlds best anti gun leaders and member countries. So yes this is a very real and very serious threat, even a shot in the dark has a chance of hitting the mark and by the time it gets to our senate it stops being a rocket and turns into a missile.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Please, link us up. I want to read where the Federal Government is setting up FEMA camps, and training foreign soldiers on American soil.
    I have seen Canadian forces training with US troops at Camp Grayling in Michigan (circa 2008). They were not UN units. When I saw all those Canadian soldiers gassing up their vehicles at a truck stop near the camp I though Canada was finally invading us.

    Foreign troops have often trained in the US with the US military.
    Last edited by Venator; 03-21-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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    How am I supposed to remember how to find a certain youtube videos that were watched weeks ago? Ive watched hundreds of them. If you care enough, you'll watch enough to find them on your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    I have seen Canadian forces training with US troops at Camp Grayling in Michigan (circa 2008). They were not UN units. When I saw all those Canadian soldiers gassing up their vehicles at a truck stop near the camp I though Canada was finally invading us.

    Foreign troops have often trained in the US with the US military.
    Yep, when I was at Shepard AFB in Wichita Falls, TX they trained fighter pilots from all over the world there. They were always thrilled when you saluted them (they are of the officer rank so you have to) I dont think they really expected it.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

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    I dont think we should salute foreign troops. Its like Obama bowing to foreign leaders, its just not right.

  18. #18
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I dont think we should salute foreign troops. Its like Obama bowing to foreign leaders, its just not right.
    Why not? Allies are allies. During WWII many countries worked together and an officer is an officer and you respect the rank, even if you don't respect the man/woman.
    Last edited by Venator; 03-21-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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    No reason to disrespect them, especially allies. A handshake would be more appropriate between nations. A salute should be earned, and kept within our nation.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 03-21-2012 at 01:19 PM.

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    No reason to disrespect them, especially allies. A handshake would be more appropriate between nations. A salute should be earned, and kept within our nation.
    A salute does not have to be earned, you just have to be an officer. Like I said it goes with the rank, not the man.

    Handshake is to informal, foreign officers do and have commanded US forces. Image military efficiencies if US troops didn't have to follow allied commanders.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    A salute does not have to be earned, you just have to be an officer. Like I said it goes with the rank, not the man.

    Handshake is to informal, foreign officers do and have commanded US forces. Image military efficiencies if US troops didn't have to follow allied commanders.
    I'm sure you can cite the constitutional authority for the federal government to put American military assets under the command of foreigners.

    /sarcasm
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    MIB I dont think you understand, the .gov does what the .gov does. The days of going by the book and the constitution are over.

    Ven, a handshake is a form of a salute. The person is placing their weapon hand in your hand, as a sign of peace. Through history and tradition, it is the most appropriate way.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 03-21-2012 at 05:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    MIB I dont think you understand, the .gov does what the .gov does. The days of going by the book and the constitution are over.
    I understand perfectly. I oppose folks who seem to accept the status quo and attempt to figure out the best way to function within it, rather than spending time on the far more important work of dismantling it entirely.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 03-21-2012 at 05:58 PM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Just a brief slice of the pie, while in basic this is drilled into your head so you dont mess up, they also tell you "when in doubt, whip it out" because its better to look like a fool saluting someone that isnt an officer (it happens a lot especially if you are unfamiliar with the rank structure of other branches. such as the navy, their petty officer rank is easily confused for a full bird colonel if youre new...I know cause it happened to me...) you can salute any person in uniform, its a formal greeting, like shaking a hand but more suitable in a military setting. Lots of information in the link provided so feel free to check it out and read up it.

    http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/salute.htm

    Persons Entitled to a Salute

    •The President of the United States (Commander-in-Chief)
    •Commissioned Officers and Warrant Officers
    •Any Medal of Honor Recipient
    •Officers of Friendly Foreign Countries
    A salute is also rendered

    •When the United States National Anthem, "To the Color," "Hail to the Chief," or foreign national anthems are played.
    •To uncased National Color outdoors.
    •On ceremonial occasions (such as Change of Command, and Military Parades).
    •At reveille and retreat ceremonies, during the raising or lowering of the flag.
    •During the sounding of honors.
    •When the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. flag is being recited outdoors.
    •When turning over control of formations.
    •When rendering reports.

    Any military person recognizing a need to salute or a need to return one may do so anywhere at any time.
    Last edited by Yance; 03-21-2012 at 06:38 PM.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

  25. #25
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Lets not forget that the School of The Americas is located on Ft. Benning, I have had to salute quite a few foreign military officers, not saying that I particularly enjoyed it but thats the military. You don't have to like it, but you damn sure have to do it!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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