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Thread: Assault on independence continues. Obama HQ briefs Romney's press corps

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Assault on independence continues. Obama HQ briefs Romney's press corps

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...ys-118098.html

    The chances of me voting repugnican, the right wing of the demos' party, are Slim and none. Slim just limped off the field. The Ruling Class is nominating the GOP candidate most amenable to the obamanation. Vote Third Party. It is time to return America to something that the Founding Fathers would recognize as their creation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...ys-118098.html

    The chances of me voting repugnican, the right wing of the demos' party, are Slim and none. Slim just limped off the field. The Ruling Class is nominating the GOP candidate most amenable to the obamanation. Vote Third Party. It is time to return America to something that the Founding Fathers would recognize as their creation.
    Been voting Libertarian since as long as I can remember. You can even register officially as a Libertarian here, and the party has an actual party name on the ballots under the candidate's name.

    Not that it's done a hell of a lot of good, of course, since folks until the last couple of years felt that third parties were anathema and somehow evil.

  3. #3
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostOfJefferson View Post
    Been voting Libertarian since as long as I can remember.
    Libertarianism is foreign to the FF. They knew of the fundamentals and rejected libertarianism. Libertarianism is progressive, democratic and leftist.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Libertarianism is progressive, democratic and leftist.
    It should be astonishing that someone who seems to pay as much attention to politics as you can possibly believe anything like this. Then again, of course, there are an awful lot of Democrats who pay a lot of attention to politics who would and do say, "Libertarianism is conservative, republican, and rightist." This dichotomy, alone, ought to give such people pause to reconsider; lamentably, but predictably, it does not.

    Libertarianism is not on the one-dimensional political spectrum that you apparently chain yourself to; it is orthogonal to it. The human creature is naturally inclined to divide subjects into exactly two opposing options. The human creature is further naturally inclined to associate and equate any potential alternative options with one or the other of these arbitrarily predefined options, short of a paradigm shift, whereby one of the two options is replaced by another, leaving two. Rational, objective, observant, thoughtful human creatures are capable of subverting these natural inclinations.

    Your vehement proclamation is a clear tell-tale that libertarianism perturbs your politicotypical worldview, and that you respond to the unease this causes with entrenchment. Let it go. Reconsider your crusty, parochial assumptions and open yourself to the possibility that You're Doing It Wrong.

    Also, your understanding of the history of libertarianism is woefully inadequate.

  5. #5
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Ho ho! What's that 250 words retort to my two dozen. Here, it's about week 4

    Week 4 - Separation of Powers: Preventing Tyranny

    http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/ https://s.ytimg.com/yt/swfbin/watch_as3-vflJeIHMg.swf at ~22:00

    Drawing from from Federalist 15, "Why has government been instituted at all?" the lecturer says, "The Founding Fathers were certainly not libertarians. Government, properly done, is an essential good, as opposed to the libertarian's view, in its purest form, that government of all kinds is, by definition, nothing but an organized criminal enterprise.

    https://encrypted.google.com/#hl=en&....hillsdale.edu

    59 hits
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 03-22-2012 at 07:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Libertarianism is foreign to the FF. They knew of the fundamentals and rejected libertarianism. Libertarianism is progressive, democratic and leftist.
    I'm not particularly interested in your incorrect and rather absurd opinion of my politics. I was concurring about your notion of voting third party, and noted my third party. If you wish to vote otherwise, please do so. Otherwise, I will not be led into a debate by somebody speaking as, it appears, a paleo-conservative with emphasis on social conservativism (sorry if I'm wrong, just going on the few things I've seen you post that I've read). Prefer to stay OT on this thread, thanks.

    So yes, vote third party. It's about time.

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    A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...ys-118098.html

    The chances of me voting repugnican, the right wing of the demos' party, are Slim and none. Slim just limped off the field. The Ruling Class is nominating the GOP candidate most amenable to the obamanation. Vote Third Party. It is time to return America to something that the Founding Fathers would recognize as their creation.
    I agree that there ought to be a vote for third party. Unfortunately, the third-party candidate that could make a statement is running on the Republican ticket.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    1.6 Self-Defense
    The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights life, liberty, and justly acquired
    property against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by
    any other individual or group. We affirm the individual right recognized by the Second Amendment
    to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense.
    We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the
    ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.


    http://www.lp.org/platform

    http://www.lp.org/issues/gun-laws
    What, carry not mentioned? Specifically? That is kind of the point behind the 'bear' part of 'to keep and bear arms.'

    A bunch of 'poly sci-babble'.

    The non-specific 'government keep out' statements will not get a bunch of folks to join their ranks.

    Specifics folks, specifics.

    Until libertarians start getting legislation passed, or anti-liberty laws repealed, at the state level and ultimately at the federal level, the primary thing the libertarian party will be known for is that they are the 'legalize weed party.'
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Defending family is not mentioned either.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that on the political spectrum, anarchy is the extreme right. Therefore libertarians are "right wing", at least more so in my understanding than the "religious right" which wants to legislate all sorts of morality. As a self described conservative I find myself relating too libertarians a whole hell of a lot more than anything "progressive" as far as economy goes and as far as social issues I fall in between.

    I find myself agreeing with Neal Boortz a lot.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    I am voting third party. I don't know what else to do, even if you vote republican you are voting for same old, same old, Obama is just destroying things faster and right in your face.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunns View Post
    I am voting third party. I don't know what else to do, even if you vote republican you are voting for same old, same old, Obama is just destroying things faster and right in your face.
    I'll still vote for Obomney, and I make sure I keep tabs on legislative candidates. If we keep pressure on them they will send bills to the WH Obomney will have no choice but too sign. A third party will only draw from the republican votes.

    I stand by my previous statements that 3rd parties haven't been very good for the limies and canucks. The parasites control the host in those countries.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Defending family is not mentioned either.
    It also doesn't specifically mention cleaning your weapons. Nor does it mention what type of safe you should keep it in. It also doesn't mention defending your pet dog. In fact, it also doesn't mention a whole host of things.

    I think it's pretty safe to take the statement in the context of the Constitution. The point of liberty is not to have every action detailed to you, rather, you're given a small set of "thou shall nots" and you're free to do everything outside of those without having to have specific direction to do those things from an authority.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    the political spectrum
    ... is an artificial, arbitrary, and inaccurate simplification of reality. Stop thinking in terms of a political spectrum. Think only in terms of what principles and opinions people hold, on an issue-by-issue basis. Do not any two self-styled "conservatives" differ on any number of topics? "Conservative", then, is an ambiguous, inaccurate label, which can be functionally useful in limited circumstances, but more often than not only encourages misunderstanding. Romney, Gingrich, and Santorum all label themselves "conservative". Which one is correct?

    "Libertarian" is a label self-imposed by people who hold principles advocating individual liberty and government which exists solely to protect individual liberty. Self-styled "libertarians" differ dramatically on the details and manifestations of these principles. There is no political spectrum which can include libertarianism, because there is no arbitrary dimension along which people's politics lie.

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostOfJefferson View Post
    Been voting Libertarian since as long as I can remember. You can even register officially as a Libertarian here, and the party has an actual party name on the ballots under the candidate's name.
    Same here in Louisiana. I once got a phone call from a pollster asking about a State wide office election. The lady calling started asking me whether I was going to vote for Mr ______ the Republican candicate or Mr _____ the Democrat on the ticket. I told her, neither that I was supporting and voting for Mr____ the Libertarian running for that seat. She didn't even know who that person was. The media had totally ignored the Libertarian running on the ballot and even the person calling around for the poll didn't even know his name. When she asked whether I was registered as a Dem or a Repub I told her that I was officially registered with the Libertarian Party. She didn't know how to list me on her poll. She mentioned that she would put me down as Independent since that was the only other choice on her questionare. I told her that I was not actually an independant but registered with an actual, state recognized political party and I should be listed as such. She eventually got tired of her ignorance getting in the way of her being able to do her job and hung up.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...ys-118098.html

    The chances of me voting repugnican, the right wing of the demos' party, are Slim and none. Slim just limped off the field. The Ruling Class is nominating the GOP candidate most amenable to the obamanation. Vote Third Party. It is time to return America to something that the Founding Fathers would recognize as their creation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I agree that there ought to be a vote for third party. Unfortunately, the third-party candidate that could make a statement is running on the Republican ticket.
    Governor Johnson is running on the Libertarian ticket and he a pretty good track record....

    Here is me with him last weekend......and I was OC (sorry for the crappy pics my phone is old and the lighting was bad but I still have to share....)



    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 03-21-2012 at 10:57 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    Same here in Louisiana. I once got a phone call from a pollster asking about a State wide office election. The lady calling started asking me whether I was going to vote for Mr ______ the Republican candicate or Mr _____ the Democrat on the ticket. I told her, neither that I was supporting and voting for Mr____ the Libertarian running for that seat. She didn't even know who that person was. The media had totally ignored the Libertarian running on the ballot and even the person calling around for the poll didn't even know his name. When she asked whether I was registered as a Dem or a Repub I told her that I was officially registered with the Libertarian Party. She didn't know how to list me on her poll. She mentioned that she would put me down as Independent since that was the only other choice on her questionare. I told her that I was not actually an independant but registered with an actual, state recognized political party and I should be listed as such. She eventually got tired of her ignorance getting in the way of her being able to do her job and hung up.
    LOL! Yeah, those are some of my favorite types of polling calls, the political ones where they want an affiliation. Seems to me that the pollsters are not from the state they're calling, hence the confusion on their political affiliation questions.

    I also enjoy the NRA calls where they breathlessly announce an end to the 2nd Amendment and gosh, send them money, quick. I inform them that 2nd Amendment or no 2nd Amendment, I still have the innate right to keep and bear arms and that repealing the amendment does not repeal the right. The pollsters are not trained, apparently, in the deeper aspects of individual rights as outlined by Enlightenment forward philosophers. They usually just switch topic and "send us money!".

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama.
    So is a vote for Romney, seeing as he's exactly like Obama.



    You couldn't possibly fail to see this if you had a single political conviction not dictated to you by a talking head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    So is a vote for Romney, seeing as he's exactly like Obama.



    You couldn't possibly fail to see this if you had a single political conviction not dictated to you by a talking head.
    Isn't that kind of attitude a trip? The person saying it (I've heard it countless times) is blaming the victim for the bad choices of the Republican Party. They assume that my vote belongs to the GOP and that if I don't vote how they say, that means that my vote now belongs to the Dems.

    The correct way to look at it, from what I've discerned, is that if the GOP cannot nominate a decent candidate and EARN MY VOTE, then they are the ones responsible for the election of Obama/any other Democrat. They have failed, they have not provided sufficient reason to choose them, they are the ones that need to change or they are the ones that accept the blame. How dare any party assume that they own my vote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostofjefferson View Post
    isn't that kind of attitude a trip? The person saying it (i've heard it countless times) is blaming the victim for the bad choices of the republican party. They assume that my vote belongs to the gop and that if i don't vote how they say, that means that my vote now belongs to the dems.

    The correct way to look at it, from what i've discerned, is that if the gop cannot nominate a decent candidate and earn my vote, then they are the ones responsible for the election of obama/any other democrat. They have failed, they have not provided sufficient reason to choose them, they are the ones that need to change or they are the ones that accept the blame. How dare any party assume that they own my vote.
    EXACTLy!
    Last edited by georg jetson; 03-21-2012 at 12:38 PM.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Are you sure you're voting in the correct party? Take the quiz.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Was busy earlier, so I hadn't had a chance to figure out what Hillsdale is. Didn't take much to figure it out: "National Review has described Hillsdale as a 'citadel of American conservatism.'" Well, with that sterling endorsement, I'm just positive we're dealing with objective, fact-based information! Seriously, that's like a Communist arguing with a libertarian, and saying, "Libertarianism is fascism! For proof, just read Mao's Little Red Book!" Well done, sir, well done. Glenn Beck should be calling you with a job offer soon.

    EDIT: I'm chuckling, right now, because as I was writing my first response to your silly claim this morning, I thought to myself, "I'll bet this guy reads the NRO and fools like Brent Bozell." Pretty sure I nailed it.
    Last edited by ()pen(arry; 03-21-2012 at 02:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    So is a vote for Romney, seeing as he's exactly like Obama.



    You couldn't possibly fail to see this if you had a single political conviction not dictated to you by a talking head.
    You mean someone like Rush Limbaugh?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    You mean someone like Rush Limbaugh?
    Yeah, someone like him.

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