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Thread: Real Time Road Rage

  1. #1
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Real Time Road Rage

    Hey all,

    Something pretty wierd happened this morning as I was heading north to Bellingham. I left at 5:00AM, and hit South Seattle about 35 min. later, running with moderate traffic, about 65 in one of the middle lanes. From behind me, a car came up on my rear, head fake left, then right lane, accelerated and ran into traffic, cut left in front of me (cutting me off) and he was right on top of the car in front of him. I flashed him, when he cut in, but am sure he knew I was there....he then proceeded to flip me off in his mirror.

    I backed off, and within a quarter mile, he slowed, I changed lanes, he changed lanes, then he changed again and was running parallel to me. He was late 20's, older mercedes, low ride seat, hoody, stocking cap and sunglasses (5:30 AM heading north...it was dead on dark)....looking like a pretty "thuggy".

    I know all this cause, his window is down, he's hanging out of it, shaking his fist and throwing stuff at my vehicle. I moved left, accelerated a bit, he kept up and kept it up and I realized that he was throwing coins at my windshield, windows etc.

    I slowed down, tried to get a plate number and call 911 to report, he matched pace, and kept tossing stuff....finally veering onto an off ramp and into Seattle downtown....and just like that it was over.

    Continuing on, I wondered if he was or had been armed, flashed a gun, what could have happened next.....what would have been the limits for either party under

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.36.045 and making a case for self defense.

    I am not sure that trying to completely dis-engage the guy by hitting the shoulder and stopping would have been a good idea, as he clearly wanted to interact.

    I was involved in a similar situation in Everett late last year (not tossing junk, but just an aggressive ditz), in that instance because it went on for 3-4 miles, I called 911 reported the plate, they took the info and said they would see if an officer was in the area (not)....so my experience with this approach was percieved as fruitless.

    Opinions from any IANAL's?
    Last edited by jt59; 03-21-2012 at 12:17 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    In december last my Sweet Baboo was attacked by a gang banger in Mt Vernon. Banger kept hitting Loris miata with her stolen car. Lori outdrove the banger and went straight to the closest police station.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 03-21-2012 at 02:33 PM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    I've held my phone up as if I'm recording video of their antics. Seems to calm them down quickly.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Would it have been possible to slow down and get well behind him? No flashing brights at him, no gang signs or Hawaiian good luck gestures, just let him get on his way ahead of you? I prefer that drivers have their accidents well ahead of me so that I can either laugh at them in the ditch as I do pass by, or take the exit well before the parking lot they create behind them.

    You might or might not get a plate number to call in. The two most memorable times I called about dangerous drivers (one speeding and cutting in & out of traffic, the other a blue-haired old lady doing 25 on the interstate with both taillights out) it took seemingly forever to get connected to an agency that both a) cared and b) was willing to come out and do something about it.

    As for engaging him in a running gun battle while rocketing down the interstate - can you be absolutely sure of each and every one of both your bullets and his? Plus, what if you took him out/disabled his vehicle and that caused him to lose control or otherwise cause a wreck involving other vehicles? Depending on how good an attorney you have, you might be looking at both criminal and civil liability for lots of folks being hurt.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    I have excoriated folks for not getting a license number, but I have to admit I had two attempted road rager-ings yesterday and failed to even THINK about the license plate. I was so involved in -driving- and not getting hit, it just didn't enter my mind that I could have called it in (for quips and giggles, at least).

    I think the way to deal with road ragers in the future is to consider it a SA exercise. Don't get agitated or try to outdrive them - get the license number and make of the car and the driver description, say it out loud (recorder running of course will capture it) and then move on.

    Sorry to hear you had that happen, but glad you stayed safe.
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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Listening to the scanner out here in Kitsap, the police do not just blow off those calls. Both County and Staters hear the calls, usually as an 'information only' and the details of the car, often including a plate. The plate helps because it gives the cops a possible destination for the driver (home). Even though it's an information only call, if there's a patrol in the area, they really do look for the car. That goes for reckless drivers, road rage, or drunks.

    It seems as though they pull over a lot of drivers with suspended licenses around here. I heard a call for a three car accident and when the read-back came from dispatch, none of the drivers had valid licenses!

    Anyway, if I see a reckless driver i might call it in, but if they take an interest in me, it's a definite call. Same for drunks or rolling physical DV.

  7. #7
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Would it have been possible to slow down and get well behind him?

    As for engaging him in a running gun battle while rocketing down the interstate - can you be absolutely sure of each and every one of both your bullets and his? Plus, what if you took him out/disabled his vehicle and that caused him to lose control or otherwise cause a wreck involving other vehicles? Depending on how good an attorney you have, you might be looking at both criminal and civil liability for lots of folks being hurt.

    stay safe.
    I was already behind him. He came back to me...

    Totally not interested in engaging in moving vehicles, in mixed traffic but if he starts it, someone is going to end up in an accident. We were in mixed traffic, but he was on the inside lane with no one else around him...front, back, side....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    I have excoriated folks for not getting a license number, but I have to admit I had two attempted road rager-ings yesterday and failed to even THINK about the license plate. I was so involved in -driving- and not getting hit, it just didn't enter my mind that I could have called it in (for quips and giggles, at least).

    I think the way to deal with road ragers in the future is to consider it a SA exercise. Don't get agitated or try to outdrive them - get the license number and make of the car and the driver description, say it out loud (recorder running of course will capture it) and then move on.

    Sorry to hear you had that happen, but glad you stayed safe.
    I like the recorder idea...easy enough to hit the flash record button on my phone....but, then again, since I don't believe that calling it in will produce any likely results, it may be a futile effort to record the info, unless he continues to be stupid and I see him hit and run someone else ahead in traffic.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    I like the recorder idea...easy enough to hit the flash record button on my phone....but, then again, since I don't believe that calling it in will produce any likely results, it may be a futile effort to record the info, unless he continues to be stupid and I see him hit and run someone else ahead in traffic.

    If you've got a quick-record feature on your phone, I think that would be preferable over 911, at least initially. Then at least you'd have some evidence to give to the police AFTER you call in, even if he's way down the road. You could even go down to the station to do so. And having your phone going increases the likelihood of getting a plate number as he pulls away, even if you're not actively thinking about it. It would at least get a firm make & model. My wife had a similar incident on 405 a couple months ago, since then we've both discussed & mentally trained ourselves to go for the phone record first.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Car DVRs are pretty cheap nowadays.....

    I've caught some stupid stuff on mine...

    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    Car DVRs are pretty cheap nowadays.....

    I've caught some stupid stuff on mine...

    Your right you do catch some really stupid stuff on it, I'm surprised at the sound quality and how you were able to pick up someones really stupid music.

    Sorry my mistake, I called that noise music...
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Make and model of DVR car cam you used?

  13. #13
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    I like the recorder idea...easy enough to hit the flash record button on my phone....but, then again, since I don't believe that calling it in will produce any likely results, it may be a futile effort to record the info, unless he continues to be stupid and I see him hit and run someone else ahead in traffic.
    It might be totally easy, but unless you are already recording, you will not have the SA to do it. Now, if you're riding shotgun and on the lookout for such things, and the phone w/recorder is in your hand, you might have a 50-50 chance (in a panic or high stress situation) of activating it. But as the driver? No way, Jose.

    You gotta have it running. (IMO)
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    I have a HAM mobile in my SUV and the antennas can easily be mistaken for those used on some LE VHF/UHF freqs. In more than one situation I just held the mic so it was visible and appeared to be calling in units from every direction. Attitudes and vehicles fade damn quick.
    Last edited by fight4your_rights; 03-22-2012 at 05:45 AM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    From the OP's description this hadn't risen to any level that would justify the use of Deadly force. If those "coins" had run out and he showed a firearm then the only standard that needs to be met is that you "were in fear for your life". The "Drive By" statute wouldn't apply.

    Stopping would have been foolish. Either slow down, change lanes, speed up, but don't stop. If the guy runs into you, vehicle=deadly weapon. Act accordingly.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Make and model of DVR car cam you used?
    Best I can figure it starts with an "N"?

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fight4your_rights View Post
    I have a HAM mobile in my SUV and the antennas can easily be mistaken for those used on some LE VHF/UHF freqs. In more than one situation I just held the mic so it was visible and appeared to be calling in units from every direction. Attitudes and vehicles fade damn quick.
    If I had the power to ban you, I would.

    That's some stupid s#%( right there that makes hams look bad.

    Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done, so you don't do it again.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Make and model of DVR car cam you used?
    Integrated into in car computer system....



    Custom designed, one-off.... of course..

    There are plenty of cams that are self-contained though... Check ebay...
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Bingo!

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    From the OP's description this hadn't risen to any level that would justify the use of Deadly force. If those "coins" had run out and he showed a firearm then the only standard that needs to be met is that you "were in fear for your life". The "Drive By" statute wouldn't apply.

    Stopping would have been foolish. Either slow down, change lanes, speed up, but don't stop. If the guy runs into you, vehicle=deadly weapon. Act accordingly.
    This is about how it worked out....I did all of the suggested....along with furtively keeping an eye on him, to the best of my ability, of what was coming out of the window next (like a can of beer), monitoring the traffic around me for escape lanes and not responding to his actions (and thinking about my 1,000 deductable on my paint job)....he bravely sped off into the night to downtown Seattle and saw finally, I wasn't interested in bumping chests.

    No damage to the paint, by the way....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    That wasn't someone elses 'stupid music'.....LOL


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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I've had three road rage insodents since 1970 here in WA...you choose which works best for you.

    First one was on state ruite 20 between Sedro and Burlington. (2 lane road) I pulled over to let the guy by and he pulled in right behind me. Then he jumped out, yelling and screaming, and jerked my car door open, reached in,,,and noticed my Colt (still in it's holster), very quick about face and left for other parts very quickly. Closest I ever came to actually pulling my carry on someone, ever. If he would have actually grabbed ahold of me, I would have shot him. I am a firm believer in, if it is bad enough for the carry to come out of the holster, it is bad enough to pull the trigger.

    The second one, I broke loose from traffic and took off (I 5 north of Everett), (un?)fortunately the WSP officer reduced the speed on the ticket to 85 so it wasn't toooo expensive (this was about 16 years ago)

    Third one, was where 405 and 5 meet north of Bothel. The guy was hanging out his window, (GMC Jimmy) with a pipe wrench trying to beat on my car...I don't know how he was managing to drive, his body was 3/4th of the way out of the window. I just kept driving as if he wasn't even there. He eventually exited. I was waiting for him to wreck. Traffic was too think to do anything else.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenIsFaster View Post
    That wasn't someone elses 'stupid music'.....LOL
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    If I had the power to ban you, I would.

    That's some stupid s#%( right there that makes hams look bad.

    Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done, so you don't do it again.
    You are certainly entitled to an opinion but you really should just keep it to yourself.

    Nothing I do or have done makes amateur radio operators look bad. I use the radio every day. Nothing you read in my post is "some stupid s#%( right there". Telling a 55yr old to go sit in the corner? GFY cowboy. Maybe that will get the ban you want.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fight4your_rights View Post
    You are certainly entitled to an opinion but you really should just keep it to yourself.

    Nothing I do or have done makes amateur radio operators look bad. I use the radio every day. Nothing you read in my post is "some stupid s#%( right there". Telling a 55yr old to go sit in the corner? GFY cowboy. Maybe that will get the ban you want.
    Picking up a mic and acting like you're calling in backup? Sounds real mature.... You haven't learned your lesson, go sit back in the corner.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member FMJ 911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    Picking up a mic and acting like you're calling in backup? Sounds real mature.... You haven't learned your lesson, go sit back in the corner.
    Time out for both of you!

    /Soapbox
    "May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." George Patton

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