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Thread: Legal Defense - Are You Covered?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Legal Defense - Are You Covered?

    I watched a video last week from USConcealed Carry. Basically for $297.00 a year you get 300K and 75K for civil. They call it "Self Defense Shield". Scroll down about 3/4 way and there is a video.
    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/mem...stomer_service

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    Then someone told me about Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network and said that was the one to get ( http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org ).

    I would like to know your thoughts on this issue.

    I am not a part of any network, nor am I promoting any, just asking a question.

    Thanks,
    Jim

  2. #2
    Regular Member battleborn's Avatar
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    I would love to hear opinions and discussion on this as well

  3. #3
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    A decision theory expected utility estimation argues against it. First, it is unlikely to be needed. Second, it has a cost. Third, the outcome is only likely.

    Like an "extended warranty" you're betting against your own interest in a quality product.

  4. #4
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I'd much rather find an attorney that I like, and trust with the matters, and put in the retainer fee.

    (Generally I'm finding that a retainer is between 1500 and 2000 smacks). Well worth it IMO, if/when I find the right lawyer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    and put in the retainer fee.
    (Generally I'm finding that a retainer is between 1500 and 2000 smacks).

    My point exactly and hence the reason for this post.

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    I am a member of Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. They can refer you to a lawyer and can even show up to help your lawyer prepare the defense. They have extensive educational resources to keep you on top of your game as a gun carrying American. They have a 24 hour hotline so you can call them anytime. Like most insurance policies, I hope I never have to use it.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonnere View Post
    I am a member of Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. They can refer you to a lawyer and can even show up to help your lawyer prepare the defense. They have extensive educational resources to keep you on top of your game as a gun carrying American. They have a 24 hour hotline so you can call them anytime. Like most insurance policies, I hope I never have to use it.
    Link?

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

  8. #8
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    Link? TBG
    Thread post #1

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    I would not want to have the prosecutor point at me and say "PROOF that he was looking for his chance to gun someone down is that he spent THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS over the years to keep lawyers on standby! He had the gun, he had the lawyer, all he needed was the right victim!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    I would not want to have the prosecutor point at me and say "PROOF that he was looking for his chance to gun someone down is that he spent THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS over the years to keep lawyers on standby! He had the gun, he had the lawyer, all he needed was the right victim!"
    FUD.


    Or, have you seen that used in a court of law? EVER?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    I would not want to have the prosecutor point at me and say "PROOF that he was looking for his chance to gun someone down is that he spent THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS over the years to keep lawyers on standby! He had the gun, he had the lawyer, all he needed was the right victim!"
    I think in this day and age it is called being prepared. Why do we have car insurance; life insurance; some states even have uninsured motorist and the list can go on .......

    I'm thinking about my family and the help we as a family will/can receive because I don't have 250k or more for an attorney; let the POOL of the network help, that is what they are there for. I just received a package from the Legal Defense Network, haven't opened it yet (busy day), but I will read it.

    If you choose not to use the service that is up to you, but I don't see where your comment holds any weight, and I hope you are never on a jury if someone used a service like this for their peace of mind and well being of the family. Education is the key to most things, then experience.

    I use to work at a maximum security prison and the people I have met say if they have education/experience and enough money for a lawyer they would not or their sentence would be less than what it is generally speaking.

    To each his/her own, just don't carry bullets.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    ...I hope you are never on a jury if someone used a service like this for their peace of mind and well being of the family. ...
    I think it is fair to say he himself does not personally feel that way, only that he recognizes that liberals often will want to feel that way against us.

    I think most of us would WANT him on our juries.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I think it is fair to say he himself does not personally feel that way, only that he recognizes that liberals often will want to feel that way against us.

    I think most of us would WANT him on our juries.

    Oh, ok, now that you put it that way.

    Sorry, long day and i am half asleep. 4:15 wake up/couldn't sleep, then at the range all day after out 7am OC meet-n-eat.

    I apologize I did not write that w/contempt.

    Jim

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    ...then at the range all day after out 7am OC meet-n-eat....
    Could be worse.

    I spent the entire day trying to organize my tax paperwork and receipts. I am hiring someone to do my taxes for the first year EVER. I makes me wish I'd never started a real business. I don't mind paying taxes one bit, but I very much hate how complicated everything is to do properly. It's why I waited so long to start a real business and I almost regret it now.

    I just want to live, help people, and make a living, paying my taxes along the way. I feel like I have to pay someone twice what I make just to see that I document it correctly.

    Sorry, does it seem like I'm ranting OT? Bad day...
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    FUD. Or, have you seen that used in a court of law? EVER?
    Not that one, but some equally as stupid. Remember that a prosecutor can say ANYTHING, and the best that defense or judge can do is tell a jury to disregard what they have just heard . . .nobody has ever managed to UNhear something. The prosecutor will pull every emotional string they can find to convince the jury that the defendant should be convicted.

    While I can't imagine it being used here, I would EXPECT it in a court in, say, New York City. At Gunsite we used to hear of prosecutors there and in other places making such claims over guns which had any modification (such as trigger jobs, improved sights or stocks, etc) or "exotic" ammunition (anything other than hardball). When one defense pointed out that the police in that city used the same pistol, ammunition and modifications, the prosecutor then cried about how the defendant was "a wannabe cop" -- until the defense pointed out that he had had that pistol before the local cops did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Not that one,.
    Then we can safely assume that it is simply a 'fear,' and not something to base a decision to not be prepared upon.

    Using the same argument, a prosecutor could claim that if I paid for comp/collision and uninsured motorist coverage, and subsequently got into an accident where someone broke a law and totaled my car, that I was simply 'wanting a new car since I had insurance.'
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    I think in this day and age it is called being prepared. Why do we have car insurance; life insurance; some states even have uninsured motorist and the list can go on .
    A valid point.

    The next question is whether the underwriter will be there when you need the help.

    Insurance is a pool, in which the members gamble that they will need the service, and the underwriter bets that they won't. At the rates quoted, it will take 1250 annual-dues payments to cover one max payout.

    The question after that is whether the 300K/75K will pay the bills, or enough of them to make it worth the gamble. There are other legal plans which might give better bang for the buck, and be useful for a wider range of legal issues. An advantage of using one of those is that it's hard to see anything sinister in a general legal plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Then we can safely assume that it is simply a 'fear,' and not something to base a decision to not be prepared upon.

    Using the same argument, a prosecutor could claim that if I paid for comp/collision and uninsured motorist coverage, and subsequently got into an accident where someone broke a law and totaled my car, that I was simply 'wanting a new car since I had insurance.'
    Uh . . .wrightme . . ? That one HAS been used, FREQUENTLY (there are several scams which revolve around being hit by other cars). Same for fire insurance, life insurance, etc.

    I've never had a bad accident, but I wear a helmet when I fly my experimental plane or ride a motorcycle, and wear a seatbelt when I drive -- not because I "fear" that an accident will happen, but because of the possibility that one might.

    I believe that you should make your own choices, but should have all of the available information. If you're thinking far enough ahead to consider the possibility of ending up in court, you also need to consider the weapons which might be used against you.
    Last edited by DVC; 03-25-2012 at 01:10 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    It is sad to live in a world where one even has to think about such possibilities as what some overpaid, left leaning lawyer or judge might or might think or say. My first thought too when I read this thread was that some sharp (pointy head) lawyer would use the fact that you bought insurance as a tool against you. The difference between this type of insurance and auto or home insurance is that the latter are a general requirement.

    TBG
    Last edited by The Big Guy; 03-25-2012 at 01:32 PM.
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Uh . . .wrightme . . ? That one HAS been used, FREQUENTLY (there are several scams which revolve around being hit by other cars). Same for fire insurance, life insurance, etc.

    I've never had a bad accident, but I wear a helmet when I fly my experimental plane or ride a motorcycle, and wear a seatbelt when I drive -- not because I "fear" that an accident will happen, but because of the possibility that one might.

    I believe that you should make your own choices, but should have all of the available information. If you're thinking far enough ahead to consider the possibility of ending up in court, you also need to consider the weapons which might be used against you.
    Having it used does NOT mean everyone who pays for insurance is wanting to scam someone.


    When you posted that you would not want to be the one, that seems to indicate you felt it wasn't a good idea to pay for 'legal insurance' because of the 'fear' of the result. It appears you are arguing against preparing for eventualities, because someone may hold that choice against you in a court of law.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    It is sad to live in a world where one even has to think about such possibilities as what some overpaid, left leaning lawyer or judge might or might think or say. My first thought too when I read this thread was that some sharp (pointy head) lawyer would use the fact that you bought insurance as a tool against you. The difference between this type of insurance and auto or home insurance is that the latter are a general requirement.

    TBG
    Well, yes and no.

    the only requirement for auto insurance is for liability insurance, not for replacement, unless required by a loan company. And, the same is true for home insurance. And, is it really required to purchase home owners liability coverage if there isn't a loan? I know a loan company will require you to purchase coverage to protect the collateral on the loan. But, is it actually a general requirement to have such insurance, sans loan?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    I would not want to have the prosecutor point at me and say "PROOF that he was looking for his chance to gun someone down is that he spent THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS over the years to keep lawyers on standby! He had the gun, he had the lawyer, all he needed was the right victim!"
    Nevada law actually says having insurance can't be used against you in court.

  23. #23
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    Nevada law actually says having insurance can't be used against you in court.
    Citation please. Rule (5).

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    When you posted that you would not want to be the one, that seems to indicate you felt it wasn't a good idea to pay for 'legal insurance' because of the 'fear' of the result. It appears you are arguing against preparing for eventualities, because someone may hold that choice against you in a court of law.
    Considering the possibility of having it brought up in court IS preparing for eventualities.

    The question then becomes whether that risk is outweighed by the benefits of the coverage.

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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Citation please. Rule (5).
    Nevada Revised Statutes chapter regarding admissibility of evidence and testimony.

    Planning to visit Nevada or just trolling?

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