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Thread: Out-of-state concealed carry permits approved (Wisconsin)

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    Out-of-state concealed carry permits approved (Wisconsin)

    March 21, 2012 By Bob Hague

    A legislative committee has signed off on a rule which allows concealed carry permit holders from other states to carry concealed in Wisconsin, even though those states may have looser training requirements. Brian O’Keefe with the state Department of Justice told lawmakers on Tuesday that the agency has been able to keep up with demand for concealed carry permits. “We’re meeting all our statutory requirements,” O’Keefe told members of the Joint Committee on Administrative Rules. “Right now, on average, it’s probably about ten days we can turn them (permit requests) around.” About 100,000 applications have been received.

    The JCAR approved an emergency rule allowing people issued permits in other states to carry concealed here, over the objections of Democrats on the panel. “To let people under reciprocity come in with a lesser degree of training and review than is required of our own citizens I think is absolutely wrong,” said state Senator Fred Risser.

    “There is no requirement in the statute for other states training to be a factor in our recognition of our state, so we do not include that in our assessment of whether we recognize or not,” O’Keefe explained.

    http://www.wrn.com/2012/03/out-of-st...mits-approved/

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    I need details!

    Does this mean any state that issues a license/permit will now be recognized? When does this go into effect?

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    100,000 recieved. 2,000 not complete, disqualified 3,000 more each week

    They are approving and returning permits within 10 days. At 108,000 permits, we reach 2% of the adult population in the first six months.

    At 3,000 permits per week, we reach 3.5 percent by the first anniversary.

    3.5 percent of the population is approximately 10 percent of voters.

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    It only applies to people who are not Wisconsin residents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon .45 View Post
    I need details!

    Does this mean any state that issues a license/permit will now be recognized? When does this go into effect?
    I believe it means that they will recognize all permits from other states, but not for people who are Wisconsin residents.

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon .45 View Post
    I need details!

    Does this mean any state that issues a license/permit will now be recognized? When does this go into effect?
    From the DOJ website:
    Out-of-state Licenses Recognized in Wisconsin
    Under s. 165.25(12m), Wis. Stats., DOJ is required to establish a list of states that issue a license to carry a concealed weapon, if that license requires, or designates that the holder chose to submit to, a background search that is comparable to the type of background check that DOJ is required to conduct for Wisconsin licensees. The Wisconsin background check includes two components: (1) a criminal history record search; and (2) a search of the national instant criminal background check system (NICS) operated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Any person who is at least 21 years of age, who is not a Wisconsin resident,* and who holds a valid concealed carry license issued by any of the states on DOJ’s list will be recognized in Wisconsin as an out-of-state licensee, per s. 175.60 (1)(g).

    DOJ has now promulgated an administrative rule, Wis. Admin. code s. Jus 17.13, under which DOJ will maintain on this website a list of all states that DOJ has found to conduct background checks comparable to Wisconsin’s. In developing that list, DOJ determined that a background check is comparable to Wisconsin’s only if it includes both a criminal history record search and a NICS search. It is necessary to require inclusion of NICS because that database includes some data related to potential disqualifying conditions that is not included in other national background check databases or in databases operated by individual states.

    In establishing this list, DOJ has tried to be as inclusive as possible and has communicated with officials in every other state to obtain information about their background check laws and policies. This list is current as of 12/08/11:


    Arizona
    Arkansas
    California
    Colorado
    Connecticut
    Georgia
    Hawaii
    Idaho
    Indiana
    Iowa
    Kansas
    Kentucky
    Louisiana
    Maryland
    Michigan
    Minnesota
    Montana
    Nebraska
    New Mexico
    New York
    North Carolina
    North Dakota
    Pennsylvania
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Utah
    Virginia (Non-Resident Only)
    Washington
    Wyoming
    Puerto Rico
    U.S. Virgin Islands
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    This flap in interesting as WI recognizes WA, and WA has NO training requirement. BTW: WA was one of the first group recognized.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Tell me one more time, please. Why are Virginia resident permits not honored.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Tell me one more time, please. Why are Virginia resident permits not honored.
    No NICS check.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    This flap in interesting as WI recognizes WA, and WA has NO training requirement. BTW: WA was one of the first group recognized.
    Training isn't one of the criteria, only background checks.

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    Pehaps I'm being nit picky. But why should we honor New York when New York doesn't honor any other permits. Now is the time for the good people of New York to demand their rights.

    JJC

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    Pehaps I'm being nit picky. But why should we honor New York when New York doesn't honor any other permits. Now is the time for the good people of New York to demand their rights.

    JJC
    Better question, why shouldn't we?
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    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    That DOJ list is "current as of 12/08/11" And it is still the same list and date on their website (I do check in there for updates every other week or so...)

    This new rule appears to be from 3/21/12. So when is it effective?

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    Two subjects involved here. Training and background checks. Out of state permits are recognized in Wisconsin if their training requirements are less than ours. Out of state permits ar not recognized if the other states background check does not include both a check of the state's criminal data base and the FBI NICS data base.

    While the relaxion of training requirements may imply that licensee's in other states with lessor training requirements have carte blanche approval to carry a concealed handgun in Wisconsin, The requirement for a dual background check throttles that notion.

    The requirement for the dual check will prove to be a headache for the DoJ, which by statute must maintain a current list of states whose permits are recognized by Wisconsin. The presumption is that the list would be ever growing and relatively stable. More and more states are slowly pursuing constitutional carry ( I think it was reported on this forum that there are 12 states in that process at this time). If background checks are eliminated as a result of adopting constitutional carry then that states name would have to be removed from the DoJ list. The list would become volatile and require that the DoJ keep it current real time and not just periodically update it. It would have to be kept current real time for court and law enforcement reasons. There are already states that appear on the current list that don't make muster. Maintaining the list may become a bigger chore than the DoJ envisioned.

    Add the pending potential national reciprocity bill( HR822) to the fray and the DoJ has quite a delemma brewing. (HR822 was approved by the house of representatives November 16, 2011.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    Pehaps I'm being nit picky. But why should we honor New York when New York doesn't honor any other permits. Now is the time for the good people of New York to demand their rights.

    JJC
    The reality in NY is, they do not have a "right" to bear arms in their State constitution. Much different than other states where there is at least some kind of acknowledgement of the 2A within the state constitution.

    I do not begrudge a NY Citizen the "Right" my state constitution guarantees me...they can come on out and OC like I do, even apply for a Non-resident permit under the same conditions I have, I think it is good...HR822 SHOULD not be necessary, but the reality is, NY, NJ, MD, OR, CA and HI have no intention of ever acknowledging some other state's citizens "Right" to carry for SD unless they are actually forced to.

    Well, actually OR does, but not for concealed.
    Last edited by hermannr; 03-23-2012 at 11:52 PM.

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    Texas

    I wish my old home state of Texas recognized our WI permits as valid. I'll be visiting family there in April, but will not be able to carry there. I wrote their people to ask if there was any legislation in the works to recognize us as valid there, but was told nothing is pending.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon .45 View Post
    That DOJ list is "current as of 12/08/11" And it is still the same list and date on their website (I do check in there for updates every other week or so...)

    This new rule appears to be from 3/21/12. So when is it effective?
    Brendon,

    Do not depend on information from the mass media to be accurate.

    This article is referring to a Proposed Permanent Rule that has been proposed by the Joint Committee on Rules and Regulations (JCRAR). It's purpose is to implement 2011 Act35 statute additions and changes. Primarily it supports Statute 175.60

    There is no effective date for these rules yet, we are currently operating on Emergency Rules.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    This flap in interesting as WI recognizes WA, and WA has NO training requirement. BTW: WA was one of the first group recognized.
    Which also seems interesting as Missouri has more stringent training requirements than Wisconsin.....yet I don't see it on the list. What gives?

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Which also seems interesting as Missouri has more stringent training requirements than Wisconsin.....yet I don't see it on the list. What gives?
    Training has nothing to do it. IN has zero training requirement and WI recognizes it. It is solely based on the background check.

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Which also seems interesting as Missouri has more stringent training requirements than Wisconsin.....yet I don't see it on the list. What gives?
    Wisconsin approval of another state's license depends on how they conduct their background check; no criminal history record search and/or no NICS check, no approval.
    Out-of-state Licenses Recognized in Wisconsin
    Under s. 165.25(12m), Wis. Stats., DOJ is required to establish a list of states that issue a license to carry a concealed weapon, if that license requires, or designates that the holder chose to submit to, a background search that is comparable to the type of background check that DOJ is required to conduct for Wisconsin licensees. The Wisconsin background check includes two components: (1) a criminal history record search; and (2) a search of the national instant criminal background check system (NICS) operated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Any person who is at least 21 years of age, who is not a Wisconsin resident,* and who holds a valid concealed carry license issued by any of the states on DOJ’s list will be recognized in Wisconsin as an out-of-state licensee, per s. 175.60 (1)(g).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    More and more states are slowly pursuing constitutional carry ( I think it was reported on this forum that there are 12 states in that process at this time). If background checks are eliminated as a result of adopting constitutional carry then that states name would have to be removed from the DoJ list.
    It seems to be that the states that are going ConCarry are still offering the permits to those that want one for reciprocity purposes....therefore the background checks still remain.
    States don’t have rights. People do.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    It seems to be that the states that are going ConCarry are still offering the permits to those that want one for reciprocity purposes....therefore the background checks still remain.
    There are those within the government(s) that want to maintain the lists anyway they can. No permit = no record of carry.

    Must remember it is not a right...........it is a privilege
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    I remember the movie Con Air, I wonder what that has to do with legally armed citizens "ConCarry[sic]"? NOTHING! DO NOT GIVE THE GUN CONTROLLERS ANY NEW IDEAS.

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    "CONTROLLER"? [sic]

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