sweetnsauer
Regular Member
Hey guys,
I just had my first bad encounter with law enforcement open carrying my weapon. Here's what happened:
I walked into the local convenience store, which is directly across the street from the police station. The police always walk across the street to this store. I've been open carrying this weapon since I got it the day after Christmas. I've carried all around town. I'm friends with the local store owners and employees. Pretty much everyone knows me and knows that I carry, and I've never had the slightest problem. Ever... I have a 100% clean record, and don't even have a parking ticket. I've never been to jail, and I've never been charged with a crime. Needless to say, I'm a law abiding citizen: by all means. But today was not a typical day. As I'm standing out the counter, next in line to check out, someone enters the store and I immediately sensed a problem. He was about 6' tall, approximately 200lbs, dark black skin, with a short buzz cut... He wasn't someone I recognized, despite this being a small town. As soon as he enters the store, I see him intently staring at me and my gun. It made me uncomfortable right off the bat, and my first fear was that he may have had his eye on trying to snatch my gun. He walked around to my left-hand side and and starts talking loudly and belligerently:
"WHO YOU WORK FOR, BOY!?"
"I'm self-employed... I work for myself..."
"NO, WHERE YOU WORK!?"
"I'm an individual day trader... I trade stocks, options, futures... I work at home."
"WELL, YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT THEN!"
"What are you talking about?"
"You cannot carry that gun on you like that!"
"Well, actually, I can. It's completely legal..."
"NO IT AIN'T!!! YOU GOTTA HAVE A PERMIT!"
"That's incorrect. Open carry is legal in Louisiana, man..."
"YOU CANNOT COME INTO A STORE CARRYING THAT GUN IN THE OPEN!!!"
"Yes, I can. I do it all the time..."
"I'M THE CHIEF OF POLICE, BOY! If you ain't a police officer, peace officer, security guard or authorized by the police you can't have a gun!!! YOU GO PUT THAT GUN UP RIGHT NOW!!!"
"Ok... I'm going to go put my weapon in the car and come back and talk to you. Not because I have to, but just as a peaceful gesture... I don't want to argue with my gun on my side anyway. Excuse me, please..."
"PUT YOUR DRINK DOWN ON THE COUNTER AND GO, NOW!"
That's what I'm trying to do...
As I go outside to go put the weapon away, he follows me out of the store. And he starts up again, with the same loud, angry and belligerent talk. And it went as follows:
"Yeah, boy, you can't carry no gun out in a public place! You crazy!?"
"First of all, this is private property, sir... and the property owner does not prohibit it."
"OH YEAH, WELL THE LAW DO!!!"
"No, it does not."
"YES IT DOES! YOU CANNOT BRANDISH A GUN IN PUBLIC!"
"I am not 'brandishing' a gun. My weapon always stays in its holster. It's called *open carry*."
"Just go put it up if you wanna talk to ME!"
"Ok, that's what I was trying to do..."
So I went back to the car and put my gun under the seat, and went back into the store. For just this sort of occasion, I carry a copy of the Louisiana State Constitutional amendment which permits open carry via the right to bear arms. The amendment reads as follows:
§11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Section 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person.
Anyone who can read and understand English at a high school graduate level can interpret this, as it's quite plain. It's basically saying "Each citizen's right to own and carry weapons cannot be violated, but the state may pass laws to regulate or ban carrying concealed weapons,". I presented him with a printed copy of Article I., Section 11 and asked him to read it. He reads it out loud, in a very loud voice, and his body language was very aggressive. And then he says:
"Oh, you talkin about the American Constitution. The Second Amendment? Yeah, the Right to Bear Arms... But that don't matter!"
"Actually, it does matter... But I'm talking about the *state* consitution of Louisiana, which is our state law... Here, please read this..."
[He then reads it out loud]
"SEE! I just TOLD you it's only CONCEALED! You can carry it CONCEALED, but you gotta have a permit!!!"
"No sir, that is not what it says."
"YES IT DOES!!! SEE!!!?"
"No, you're wildly misinterpretting this--"
"OH NO I AIN'T!! What does that word say!? Does that say 'concealed'?! HUH?! DOES IT!?"
"Please re-read the entire thing. You cannot just pick one word out of it --"
"DOES THAT WORD SAY 'CONCEALED'?! ANSWER ME?! THAT WORD SAYS 'CONCEALED', RIGHT!?"
"That particular word is 'concealed', but you obviously aren't understanding the entire amendment."
"You gotta have a PERMIT to carry that gun, and only CONCEALED!"
"That is not true. I only need a permit to carry it concealed, but I can open carry my weapon without a permit. It is the state law."
"NO, YOU WRONG!!! THAT WORD SAY CONCEALED, SON!!!"
"I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about... But I have thoroughly researched this."
"OK THEN! Well how about this: Next time I see you carryin that gun around my town I'm gonna have whatever officer is on duty come and take that gun and ARREST you, and throw you in JAIL, then we'll see about that!!!"
"You cannot legally do that, because I will not have broken any laws."
"Ok, well you can fight it out in court then!"
"Then I will... and I will win."
"HA! OK!! WE'LL SEE! THAT'S THE END OF THIS DISCUSSION!"
"Why do you refuse to listen to reason?"
"THAT'S IT, OK!? I BETTER NOT SEE YOU OUT HERE CARRYIN THAT GUN AGAIN!!!"
"..."
...and he storms out of the store angry. He was not on duty, obviously, because he was wearing pants and a red shirt, rather than a uniform. He also was not visibly armed, and was not displaying a badge. My friend, who was outside pumping gas, said that he drove away in a school bus (which I found odd). However, I'm positive that he is who he says he is: Police Chief Adrian Martin of St. Helena Parish, Louisiana. I found his picture online on the police department's website, and positively identified him: there's no mistaking it. So I was indeed harrassed and threatened by the local Chief of Police!
I am absolutely infuriated now, as this was completely and totally uncalled for. The St Helena Sheriff's Department is completely out of control, and has been for years. Hardly even two months ago, my little brother was stopped by them for no reason; they illegally searched him, unlawfully detained and arrested him and seized my mother's truck (which he was driving) and impounded it. They claimed he was involved in a burgalary the previous night and that the truck was being impounded for "evidence"; and that everything inside was "stolen". They also claimed he had unpaid fines and warrants: completely untrue, and in fact I accompanied my brother on the day, a month before, when he paid all of his tickets. Come to find out, my brother did NOT have any warrants. The suspect they were looking for in the allegeded burgalary was a black male, and my brother is a white male. The vehicle they were looking for was a completely different make, model and color. So they said they were going to "just change it" to an "insurance hold", and released him, but still kept the vehicle and ticketed him! They then put him out on the street to walk. And this was not the first time. My little brother has been unlawfully arrested on bogus/fake charges multiple times when he did nothing wrong. My friend got punched in the face and attacked by another man a while back, and he was jailed and charged with second degree battery... for simply defending himself (and there were witnesses). They haven't arrested me, personally, before... but they've threatened to arrest me on an unlawful basis NUMEROUS times; once for merely trying to report to an officer what I saw as a witness. And this is only scratching the surface! Almost everyone I know who lives here has been severely mistreated by the police. They believe that they are not only above the law but can MAKE UP the law as they go. Today was yet another example of it.
Office Martin simply does not know or understand the law, and seems to have trouble with reading comprehension. Either that, or he knows he is wrong but likes to abuse his power to lie to people and threaten them with unlawful and unjust arrest. I believe it may be a mixture of both. His behavior was very hostile and aggressive, and completely unprofessional. His attitude was belligerent and combative, and totally unreasonable. He attempted to directly violate my rights as both a citizen of the United States and of the state of Louisiana. Though I am not permitted for concealed carry, I have every right to openly carry my weapon, with or without a permit, according to both the federal and state constitution of the land in which I reside.
I'm asking everyone to show their support for the right to bear arms and educate this out-of-control police force about the law. The contact page for the St Helena Sheriff's Dept can be found here, or by using the following link:
http://www.sthelenaso.org/Contact/tabid/59/Default.aspx
Regards,
I just had my first bad encounter with law enforcement open carrying my weapon. Here's what happened:
I walked into the local convenience store, which is directly across the street from the police station. The police always walk across the street to this store. I've been open carrying this weapon since I got it the day after Christmas. I've carried all around town. I'm friends with the local store owners and employees. Pretty much everyone knows me and knows that I carry, and I've never had the slightest problem. Ever... I have a 100% clean record, and don't even have a parking ticket. I've never been to jail, and I've never been charged with a crime. Needless to say, I'm a law abiding citizen: by all means. But today was not a typical day. As I'm standing out the counter, next in line to check out, someone enters the store and I immediately sensed a problem. He was about 6' tall, approximately 200lbs, dark black skin, with a short buzz cut... He wasn't someone I recognized, despite this being a small town. As soon as he enters the store, I see him intently staring at me and my gun. It made me uncomfortable right off the bat, and my first fear was that he may have had his eye on trying to snatch my gun. He walked around to my left-hand side and and starts talking loudly and belligerently:
"WHO YOU WORK FOR, BOY!?"
"I'm self-employed... I work for myself..."
"NO, WHERE YOU WORK!?"
"I'm an individual day trader... I trade stocks, options, futures... I work at home."
"WELL, YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT THEN!"
"What are you talking about?"
"You cannot carry that gun on you like that!"
"Well, actually, I can. It's completely legal..."
"NO IT AIN'T!!! YOU GOTTA HAVE A PERMIT!"
"That's incorrect. Open carry is legal in Louisiana, man..."
"YOU CANNOT COME INTO A STORE CARRYING THAT GUN IN THE OPEN!!!"
"Yes, I can. I do it all the time..."
"I'M THE CHIEF OF POLICE, BOY! If you ain't a police officer, peace officer, security guard or authorized by the police you can't have a gun!!! YOU GO PUT THAT GUN UP RIGHT NOW!!!"
"Ok... I'm going to go put my weapon in the car and come back and talk to you. Not because I have to, but just as a peaceful gesture... I don't want to argue with my gun on my side anyway. Excuse me, please..."
"PUT YOUR DRINK DOWN ON THE COUNTER AND GO, NOW!"
That's what I'm trying to do...
As I go outside to go put the weapon away, he follows me out of the store. And he starts up again, with the same loud, angry and belligerent talk. And it went as follows:
"Yeah, boy, you can't carry no gun out in a public place! You crazy!?"
"First of all, this is private property, sir... and the property owner does not prohibit it."
"OH YEAH, WELL THE LAW DO!!!"
"No, it does not."
"YES IT DOES! YOU CANNOT BRANDISH A GUN IN PUBLIC!"
"I am not 'brandishing' a gun. My weapon always stays in its holster. It's called *open carry*."
"Just go put it up if you wanna talk to ME!"
"Ok, that's what I was trying to do..."
So I went back to the car and put my gun under the seat, and went back into the store. For just this sort of occasion, I carry a copy of the Louisiana State Constitutional amendment which permits open carry via the right to bear arms. The amendment reads as follows:
§11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Section 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person.
Anyone who can read and understand English at a high school graduate level can interpret this, as it's quite plain. It's basically saying "Each citizen's right to own and carry weapons cannot be violated, but the state may pass laws to regulate or ban carrying concealed weapons,". I presented him with a printed copy of Article I., Section 11 and asked him to read it. He reads it out loud, in a very loud voice, and his body language was very aggressive. And then he says:
"Oh, you talkin about the American Constitution. The Second Amendment? Yeah, the Right to Bear Arms... But that don't matter!"
"Actually, it does matter... But I'm talking about the *state* consitution of Louisiana, which is our state law... Here, please read this..."
[He then reads it out loud]
"SEE! I just TOLD you it's only CONCEALED! You can carry it CONCEALED, but you gotta have a permit!!!"
"No sir, that is not what it says."
"YES IT DOES!!! SEE!!!?"
"No, you're wildly misinterpretting this--"
"OH NO I AIN'T!! What does that word say!? Does that say 'concealed'?! HUH?! DOES IT!?"
"Please re-read the entire thing. You cannot just pick one word out of it --"
"DOES THAT WORD SAY 'CONCEALED'?! ANSWER ME?! THAT WORD SAYS 'CONCEALED', RIGHT!?"
"That particular word is 'concealed', but you obviously aren't understanding the entire amendment."
"You gotta have a PERMIT to carry that gun, and only CONCEALED!"
"That is not true. I only need a permit to carry it concealed, but I can open carry my weapon without a permit. It is the state law."
"NO, YOU WRONG!!! THAT WORD SAY CONCEALED, SON!!!"
"I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about... But I have thoroughly researched this."
"OK THEN! Well how about this: Next time I see you carryin that gun around my town I'm gonna have whatever officer is on duty come and take that gun and ARREST you, and throw you in JAIL, then we'll see about that!!!"
"You cannot legally do that, because I will not have broken any laws."
"Ok, well you can fight it out in court then!"
"Then I will... and I will win."
"HA! OK!! WE'LL SEE! THAT'S THE END OF THIS DISCUSSION!"
"Why do you refuse to listen to reason?"
"THAT'S IT, OK!? I BETTER NOT SEE YOU OUT HERE CARRYIN THAT GUN AGAIN!!!"
"..."
...and he storms out of the store angry. He was not on duty, obviously, because he was wearing pants and a red shirt, rather than a uniform. He also was not visibly armed, and was not displaying a badge. My friend, who was outside pumping gas, said that he drove away in a school bus (which I found odd). However, I'm positive that he is who he says he is: Police Chief Adrian Martin of St. Helena Parish, Louisiana. I found his picture online on the police department's website, and positively identified him: there's no mistaking it. So I was indeed harrassed and threatened by the local Chief of Police!
I am absolutely infuriated now, as this was completely and totally uncalled for. The St Helena Sheriff's Department is completely out of control, and has been for years. Hardly even two months ago, my little brother was stopped by them for no reason; they illegally searched him, unlawfully detained and arrested him and seized my mother's truck (which he was driving) and impounded it. They claimed he was involved in a burgalary the previous night and that the truck was being impounded for "evidence"; and that everything inside was "stolen". They also claimed he had unpaid fines and warrants: completely untrue, and in fact I accompanied my brother on the day, a month before, when he paid all of his tickets. Come to find out, my brother did NOT have any warrants. The suspect they were looking for in the allegeded burgalary was a black male, and my brother is a white male. The vehicle they were looking for was a completely different make, model and color. So they said they were going to "just change it" to an "insurance hold", and released him, but still kept the vehicle and ticketed him! They then put him out on the street to walk. And this was not the first time. My little brother has been unlawfully arrested on bogus/fake charges multiple times when he did nothing wrong. My friend got punched in the face and attacked by another man a while back, and he was jailed and charged with second degree battery... for simply defending himself (and there were witnesses). They haven't arrested me, personally, before... but they've threatened to arrest me on an unlawful basis NUMEROUS times; once for merely trying to report to an officer what I saw as a witness. And this is only scratching the surface! Almost everyone I know who lives here has been severely mistreated by the police. They believe that they are not only above the law but can MAKE UP the law as they go. Today was yet another example of it.
Office Martin simply does not know or understand the law, and seems to have trouble with reading comprehension. Either that, or he knows he is wrong but likes to abuse his power to lie to people and threaten them with unlawful and unjust arrest. I believe it may be a mixture of both. His behavior was very hostile and aggressive, and completely unprofessional. His attitude was belligerent and combative, and totally unreasonable. He attempted to directly violate my rights as both a citizen of the United States and of the state of Louisiana. Though I am not permitted for concealed carry, I have every right to openly carry my weapon, with or without a permit, according to both the federal and state constitution of the land in which I reside.
I'm asking everyone to show their support for the right to bear arms and educate this out-of-control police force about the law. The contact page for the St Helena Sheriff's Dept can be found here, or by using the following link:
http://www.sthelenaso.org/Contact/tabid/59/Default.aspx
Regards,
