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Harrassed by Chief of Police: Rallying the troops!

sweetnsauer

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Louisiana
Your Mayor is Mr Burke Jones. I'd contact him. Your Police Jury meets every 2 weeks. You may want to address them with your concerns if Chief Martin seems unable to understand basic english. If you have a mailing address for the GPD get it to me so I can see about adding it to our (LOCAL's) list of LE agencies who need to receive a mailer from us. I just mailed one to the Chief of DeQuincy Police Dept on Monday. Chief Martin can get one in his mailbox too if he needs one.

Yes, at this point I was the police department to be receiving mail, emails, in-person visits and everything else to carry the message across. I don't want to go into town one day and have some idiot cop pull his gun on me. I also fear an non-uniformed or off duty policeman pulling a gun on me because I will have no way of knowing he/she is a LEO! And how do you react to a random person pulling a gun on you? ...not kindly! I want them ALL to know that OC is 100% legal. I don't want anything bad to happen or anyone to ever get hurt over the ignorance of St Helena cops. So please do send a "mailer" to Martin, and the rest of the crew. I would also like to become active in town and pass out flyers or whatever other media LOCAL prescribes (btw, I've joined LOCAL).

Good idea. I will definitely bring Chief Martin's linguistic deficiencies (evident inability to comprehend basic English) to the attention of city council. I don't know if it will be helpful, but my mother is good friend's with Ken Carter, former mayor of Greensburg. I do not know Mayor Jones, but perhaps a meeting is in order.

But please help me! While I may be intelligent and educated in the matter of my rights and certain portions of the law, I'm a newbie to dealing with police and local government in this way. I don't know the CoC (Chain of Command) and only vaguely understand some of the procedures and protocols I need to follow here.

And what if they actually DO arrest me? I would not be surprised, because I've watched my brother and other innocent people be awaken by a knock at the door and drug off to jail for nothing. I'm not afraid of being arrested itself, but some other things worry me... like an expensive bail, how long I might be there, etc. And I'm supposing that IF they do, then I have grounds for a big stinky lawsuit I could use to make positive changes for the right to bear arms...

EDIT: I've also contrived what I think may be a better response to that old "do you have a permit" BS line... We all seem to respond, basically: "I don't need one". But that answer seems to acknowledge that such a thing actually exists! The better response, me thinks, would be: "There is no such thing as an 'open carry permit' in this state".
 
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sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
I think you guys are completely missing the point here.

There are some circumstances that you can not 'combat' using legal means, words, 'telling on the person' or trying to lock horns.

To me there are only two alternatives:

1. Make friends with this guy, join some kind of police 'helper' league and getting on his good side be the exception to his (hinky) rule. (a long shot)
2. Move the freak away from this place pronto.

Seriously, you're saying 'I've got this 800 lb monster who won't listen to reason and who wants to arrest me, how can I reason with him?' It's ridiculous. You can't.

Even if the PtB try to rein him in, he'll find a way to 'get you', imo.

But...good luck.
 

sraacke

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
1,214
Location
Saint Gabriel, Louisiana, USA
(btw, I've joined LOCAL).

Cool. I havn't received a membership application from anyone in Greensburg but as soon as it goes through and the internet spits it out to us we will make sure to get your membership card and such in the mail to you. Sometimes the membership form or Paypal link hangs up or throws an error code for some random reason. It ususally clears up quickly though. Glad to have you on board.
If you havn't gone to the LOCAL forum you should check in there too. We have lots of discussions there. You will be able to read in the Members section as soon as we get your membership processed too.

And what if they actually DO arrest me?
Who is your lawyer? I'll bet that you probably havn't thought about needing to have one, right? Think about this. Anyone who carries a gun for protection should train with it and know the laws regarding carrying it and use of force. Part of that involves running scenerios. What Ifs.
Like....
What if I'm in this store and some guy walks in and starts waving a gun around yelling to get on the floor...
What if I'm at this gas pump and some dude drives by and gives me the evil eye then does a Uturn in the road and heads back this way....
What if I'm getting out of my car and someone runs up to the door....
One of the What If's that we all should go over is....What if I have to shoot that guy over there who's looking all freaked out?
What do I say to the 911 dispatcher?
What do i say to the police?
If I'm arrested and my gun is seized, who will take my case?
Do I know a lawyer who can speak for me?
Now is the time to be finding a lawyer, not after you shoot someone or are arrested while carrying a gun.
Marty Hayes, Director of the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network made this point in an interview he did for the Practical Defense Network podcast. If you want to hear the interview go to http://www.alexhaddox.com/practicaldefense.shtml and scroll down to "Practical Defense 201 - Legal Aftermath with Marty Hayes". If you don't have a lawyer on speed dial already, you havn't done your job. Get one.
Personally I chose Morgan Allison and the La Armed Citizen Plan he offers- http://www.louisianaarmedcitizens.com/ .
 
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MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Civil rights violations.
Federal crimes.
Get a lawyer.

For the department as a whole, or if 2 officers work together to harass/threaten/intimidate someone:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/241
Conspiracy against rights
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State... in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same...
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both...

For what the Chief did, or if any single officer does something similar:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/242
Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State... to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States...
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both...

Here's the federal law saying you can sue & collect damages:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983
Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State... subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States... to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress...

Part B here says you recover attorney's fees when you win.

This is a PDF of the initial complaint for a civil rights case I was involved in, which included several illegal search/seizures, unreasonable force, lack of due process, & RKBA.
Contact info for the attorney (in GA) is on the last 2 pages (7&8... it's a short & easy read, though it has been known to raise people's blood pressure).
 
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sweetnsauer

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Louisiana
Hey guys,

Sheriff Williams called me this morning and arranged a meeting for 3:30pm. If anything, I want to let him know what's going on and ask him to make all of his officers aware that OC is 100% legal in the state, is not reasonable suspicion for a detention, not probable cause for a search/seizure and should not be regarded as "suspicious" in the least. If you guys have any input or advice for me, let's hear it.

@Yale: In fact, I do have "a lawyer on speed dial". However, I'm thinking about getting a new one. I also have reviewed pretty much all of those "what if" scenarios before. And basically, it comes down to this: I cannot use my gun unless A) my life is in danger B) an innocent person's life is in danger C) the aforementioned are in danger of bodily harm D) to prevent the forcible and unlawful entry of my home or vehicle. I know that in Louisiana, there is no "duty to retreat" -- we have a "stand your ground" statute.

I'm not new to using a weapon in self-defense, and think I've handled myself appropriately thus far. In my first encounter, I declined to shoot because the assailants fled when the gun was leveled against them. And shooting fleeing persons is not self-defense, it's just wrong (with very few exceptions) -- however mad you may be at them for trying to hurt you only seconds before. And I sincerely hope I never have to use my gun to save my life or an innocent person's life again. That's not something a man should want. But I do hope, however, that if I'm ever around when something bad happens that my actions can save lives.

@MKEgal: Bingo! Excellent post! I can definitely use this!
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Hey guys,

Sheriff Williams called me this morning and arranged a meeting for 3:30pm. If anything, I want to let him know what's going on and ask him to make all of his officers aware that OC is 100% legal in the state, is not reasonable suspicion for a detention, not probable cause for a search/seizure and should not be regarded as "suspicious" in the least. If you guys have any input or advice for me, let's hear it.SNIP

Way to go!! You might want to print out some of our LOCAL pamphlets to bring with you. You appear to be a very articulate and sharp young man so I'm sure you'll impress the Sherriff with your knowledge and professionalism. Let us know how receptive he was to your concerns.
 
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sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
Hey guys,

Sheriff Williams called me this morning and arranged a meeting for 3:30pm.

Sounds great. I'm surprised and pleased at the outcome. Maybe there's hope for the neanderthals, er I mean human race after all.

(take your vid cam)
 

sweetnsauer

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Louisiana
Ok, just got home from the meeting with Sheriff Williams. It went surprisingly well. He was very courteous and professional, and explicitly acknowledged that open carry is a legal activity. My friend accompanied me and made an audio recording of the meeting. I will make a post here shortly to give the full version of events and details (yes, there's more to it than what I just said -- I feel like we're getting somewhere). :cool:
 

sraacke

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
1,214
Location
Saint Gabriel, Louisiana, USA
Ok, just got home from the meeting with Sheriff Williams. It went surprisingly well. He was very courteous and professional, and explicitly acknowledged that open carry is a legal activity. My friend accompanied me and made an audio recording of the meeting. I will make a post here shortly to give the full version of events and details (yes, there's more to it than what I just said -- I feel like we're getting somewhere). :cool:
Great job. Hopefully he can pass the word to the Chief and let him know that some of us are educated and organized to protect our rights. Still want to send him a mailer.
 
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sweetnsauer

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Louisiana
Ok, now let me give everyone a proper explanation of how the meeting with Sheriff Williams went...

I met him at his office, accompanied by a friend who I brought along to witness the conversation. He was very polite in greeting us, and we sat down with him. I began by formally introducing myself and told him where I live. I then proceeded to explain that I open carry my handgun on a regular basis in accordance with state law: and that I have never been arrested and convicted of any crime, and have a completely clean record... and that I've carried for quite a while, and have never had a problem. Then I stated that upon a routine stop at the store "Swifty's", across from the police station, I was confronted and harassed by a man who said he was the Chief of Police. I then presented him with a printed copy of the dialog and version of events which I recorded immediately after the encounter upon arriving at home. He actually took the time to read it, so I just sat quiet for a minute and let him read. His first remark was: "'Who do you work for, BOY?' ... he said it like that?" I replied "Yes sir, and his behavior was openly hostile and belligerent." He frowned a bit and said "Well... that is not right at all... That was out of line." ...to which I fully agreed. He acknowledged that what I was doing was legal, and was not any reason for a police officer (especially one off duty) to confront me. He also acknowledged an understanding of the state laws, that open carry is legal and there is no such thing as an "open carry permit", and that I was completely within the bounds of the law. He further stated that he often has deer hunters traveling through town and 'his men' know not to give them or any other open carriers any trouble. He was clearly displeased with Martin's behavior/ignorance...

"But there's a good part and a bad part," he said, "...the bad part is that he doesn't work for me." I stated that I understood this, but I wanted to A) make him aware of the incident B) request that his officers are all properly informed of the laws. The good part, he said, is that Mayor Burke is a good guy and a reasonable man, and that he could have something done directly about this. And he suggested that I see the mayor asap and bring along copies of the dialog and the LOCAL pamphlet as well. I told him I already planned to do so, and he assured me that the mayor would be helpful. He went on to call in his chief, whom he referred to as his 'right hand man' and 'second in command'. He said that due to this incident, their next police meeting would include the topic of open carry and LOCAL pamphlets would be put in front of the officers. He said that he is pretty sure most of them in his department already know, but they will ensure that everyone is up to speed on the state law and OC. I'm very pleased by this, as now all the parish police will be properly informed.

The next step will be seeing Mayor Burke and trying to have something direct done about the incident. I've talked to a few people around town and all of them say that Adrian Martin is essentially a bully; or as one person called it, "a thug with a badge". He has personally harassed my brother and my close friend on numerous occasions, as well as quite a few other people I know. My friend who works at the Greensburg Market says that he often walks across the street to the Market and picks out someone to bash on and harass/threaten... something that happens all the time, if not every day he comes into the store. So this is not an isolated incident, and I think it's important for something to be done about it. And that is precisely what I hope we can accomplish in the coming days.

Regards,
 

Silverfox44

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
82
Location
Tukwila, Washington, USA
silverfox44

OMG. I live in WA State and here we do not use the word BOY referring to you. I cannot for the life of me no how you kept your cool.
I could hardly read the story.
Best of luck.
 

sweetnsauer

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Louisiana
OMG. I live in WA State and here we do not use the word BOY referring to you. I cannot for the life of me no how you kept your cool.
I could hardly read the story.
Best of luck.

I feel like this... when someone comes at me acting like that they are clearly offended that someone my age can carry themselves as well as I do. It's their only way of trying to "talk down" to me, because I will easily win if they try to take the intellectual road. So what's left to do, other than try to bash on my age? Not much... :lol:

From what I understand, he tries to pull that type of crap all the time on people around town. And he has some sort of affinity for picking on young men -- from the stories I've heard, he especially likes bullying young black males. He's used to them being afraid, ignorant of the law and their rights and getting lots of nods and "yes, sirs" and "no, sirs". But yesterday's incident wasn't what he expected, I'm sure. The fact that I knew what I was talking about, stood my ground on the issue, showed no fear and continually asserted the facts was not to his liking. I think it made it worse because the other customers in the store were laughing, and there was another little outburst of laughter when he stormed out of the store. I didn't find it funny in the least, and I'm taking it very serious. But I think the other locals were pleased that someone stood up to him in a calm and assertive fashion.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
I think you guys are completely missing the point here.

There are some circumstances that you can not 'combat' using legal means, words, 'telling on the person' or trying to lock horns.

To me there are only two alternatives:

1. Make friends with this guy, join some kind of police 'helper' league and getting on his good side be the exception to his (hinky) rule. (a long shot)
2. Move the freak away from this place pronto.

Seriously, you're saying 'I've got this 800 lb monster who won't listen to reason and who wants to arrest me, how can I reason with him?' It's ridiculous. You can't.

Even if the PtB try to rein him in, he'll find a way to 'get you', imo.

But...good luck.

The alternatives will not work. Police can be put back in their place as servants of the people who are paid to enforce the law, not their own will. It just takes some fortitude, and the alternative is living in a police state.
 
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davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
You have two choices:

1) arrest him & shot the guy if needed
2) put the gun in your car

Sitting there and arguing is not a choice.

Pick a choice.
 
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