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Thread: Harrassed by Chief of Police: Rallying the troops!

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetnsauer View Post
    Hey guys,

    Sheriff Williams called me this morning and arranged a meeting for 3:30pm. If anything, I want to let him know what's going on and ask him to make all of his officers aware that OC is 100% legal in the state, is not reasonable suspicion for a detention, not probable cause for a search/seizure and should not be regarded as "suspicious" in the least. If you guys have any input or advice for me, let's hear it.SNIP
    Way to go!! You might want to print out some of our LOCAL pamphlets to bring with you. You appear to be a very articulate and sharp young man so I'm sure you'll impress the Sherriff with your knowledge and professionalism. Let us know how receptive he was to your concerns.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 03-22-2012 at 01:48 PM.

  2. #27
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetnsauer View Post
    Hey guys,

    Sheriff Williams called me this morning and arranged a meeting for 3:30pm.
    Sounds great. I'm surprised and pleased at the outcome. Maybe there's hope for the neanderthals, er I mean human race after all.

    (take your vid cam)
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  3. #28
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    Getting ready to go now... Printed out a LOCAL pamphlet, printing out copies of all relevant laws, etc...

  4. #29
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    OK you seem to have things going in the right direction.

    But if it were me, I would get one of these http://microvideox.com/pen-camcorder.html, have a lawyer on stand by and stand out in front of the PD and wait for my arrest. I always wanted to retire early, MKEgal has hit all the points..
    Last edited by F350; 03-22-2012 at 04:14 PM.

  5. #30
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    Ok, just got home from the meeting with Sheriff Williams. It went surprisingly well. He was very courteous and professional, and explicitly acknowledged that open carry is a legal activity. My friend accompanied me and made an audio recording of the meeting. I will make a post here shortly to give the full version of events and details (yes, there's more to it than what I just said -- I feel like we're getting somewhere).

  6. #31
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetnsauer View Post
    Ok, just got home from the meeting with Sheriff Williams. It went surprisingly well. He was very courteous and professional, and explicitly acknowledged that open carry is a legal activity. My friend accompanied me and made an audio recording of the meeting. I will make a post here shortly to give the full version of events and details (yes, there's more to it than what I just said -- I feel like we're getting somewhere).
    Great job. Hopefully he can pass the word to the Chief and let him know that some of us are educated and organized to protect our rights. Still want to send him a mailer.
    Last edited by sraacke; 03-22-2012 at 05:10 PM.
    President/ Founding Member
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    www.laopencarry.org

  7. #32
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    Ok, now let me give everyone a proper explanation of how the meeting with Sheriff Williams went...

    I met him at his office, accompanied by a friend who I brought along to witness the conversation. He was very polite in greeting us, and we sat down with him. I began by formally introducing myself and told him where I live. I then proceeded to explain that I open carry my handgun on a regular basis in accordance with state law: and that I have never been arrested and convicted of any crime, and have a completely clean record... and that I've carried for quite a while, and have never had a problem. Then I stated that upon a routine stop at the store "Swifty's", across from the police station, I was confronted and harassed by a man who said he was the Chief of Police. I then presented him with a printed copy of the dialog and version of events which I recorded immediately after the encounter upon arriving at home. He actually took the time to read it, so I just sat quiet for a minute and let him read. His first remark was: "'Who do you work for, BOY?' ... he said it like that?" I replied "Yes sir, and his behavior was openly hostile and belligerent." He frowned a bit and said "Well... that is not right at all... That was out of line." ...to which I fully agreed. He acknowledged that what I was doing was legal, and was not any reason for a police officer (especially one off duty) to confront me. He also acknowledged an understanding of the state laws, that open carry is legal and there is no such thing as an "open carry permit", and that I was completely within the bounds of the law. He further stated that he often has deer hunters traveling through town and 'his men' know not to give them or any other open carriers any trouble. He was clearly displeased with Martin's behavior/ignorance...

    "But there's a good part and a bad part," he said, "...the bad part is that he doesn't work for me." I stated that I understood this, but I wanted to A) make him aware of the incident B) request that his officers are all properly informed of the laws. The good part, he said, is that Mayor Burke is a good guy and a reasonable man, and that he could have something done directly about this. And he suggested that I see the mayor asap and bring along copies of the dialog and the LOCAL pamphlet as well. I told him I already planned to do so, and he assured me that the mayor would be helpful. He went on to call in his chief, whom he referred to as his 'right hand man' and 'second in command'. He said that due to this incident, their next police meeting would include the topic of open carry and LOCAL pamphlets would be put in front of the officers. He said that he is pretty sure most of them in his department already know, but they will ensure that everyone is up to speed on the state law and OC. I'm very pleased by this, as now all the parish police will be properly informed.

    The next step will be seeing Mayor Burke and trying to have something direct done about the incident. I've talked to a few people around town and all of them say that Adrian Martin is essentially a bully; or as one person called it, "a thug with a badge". He has personally harassed my brother and my close friend on numerous occasions, as well as quite a few other people I know. My friend who works at the Greensburg Market says that he often walks across the street to the Market and picks out someone to bash on and harass/threaten... something that happens all the time, if not every day he comes into the store. So this is not an isolated incident, and I think it's important for something to be done about it. And that is precisely what I hope we can accomplish in the coming days.

    Regards,

  8. #33
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    Thumbs up

    ^Nice job. Keep us posted.

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    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
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  9. #34
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Very good report. Let us know how your meeting with the Mayor goes.

    Steve,
    Secretary, Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League (LOCAL)
    www.laopencarry.org
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

  10. #35
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    Lightbulb silverfox44

    OMG. I live in WA State and here we do not use the word BOY referring to you. I cannot for the life of me no how you kept your cool.
    I could hardly read the story.
    Best of luck.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverfox44 View Post
    OMG. I live in WA State and here we do not use the word BOY referring to you. I cannot for the life of me no how you kept your cool.
    I could hardly read the story.
    Best of luck.
    Our culture is a bit more laid back down here... Don't you watch "Swamp People" or "Sons of Guns"?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverfox44 View Post
    OMG. I live in WA State and here we do not use the word BOY referring to you. I cannot for the life of me no how you kept your cool.
    I could hardly read the story.
    Best of luck.
    I feel like this... when someone comes at me acting like that they are clearly offended that someone my age can carry themselves as well as I do. It's their only way of trying to "talk down" to me, because I will easily win if they try to take the intellectual road. So what's left to do, other than try to bash on my age? Not much...

    From what I understand, he tries to pull that type of crap all the time on people around town. And he has some sort of affinity for picking on young men -- from the stories I've heard, he especially likes bullying young black males. He's used to them being afraid, ignorant of the law and their rights and getting lots of nods and "yes, sirs" and "no, sirs". But yesterday's incident wasn't what he expected, I'm sure. The fact that I knew what I was talking about, stood my ground on the issue, showed no fear and continually asserted the facts was not to his liking. I think it made it worse because the other customers in the store were laughing, and there was another little outburst of laughter when he stormed out of the store. I didn't find it funny in the least, and I'm taking it very serious. But I think the other locals were pleased that someone stood up to him in a calm and assertive fashion.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    I think you guys are completely missing the point here.

    There are some circumstances that you can not 'combat' using legal means, words, 'telling on the person' or trying to lock horns.

    To me there are only two alternatives:

    1. Make friends with this guy, join some kind of police 'helper' league and getting on his good side be the exception to his (hinky) rule. (a long shot)
    2. Move the freak away from this place pronto.

    Seriously, you're saying 'I've got this 800 lb monster who won't listen to reason and who wants to arrest me, how can I reason with him?' It's ridiculous. You can't.

    Even if the PtB try to rein him in, he'll find a way to 'get you', imo.

    But...good luck.
    The alternatives will not work. Police can be put back in their place as servants of the people who are paid to enforce the law, not their own will. It just takes some fortitude, and the alternative is living in a police state.
    Last edited by Daylen; 03-22-2012 at 08:47 PM.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  14. #39
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "..... BOY? You see some boy aroun' here, you give him twenny' dollah." Haven't had anyone take me up on that challenge yet.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 03-22-2012 at 09:24 PM.

  15. #40
    Regular Member davidmcbeth's Avatar
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    You have two choices:

    1) arrest him & shot the guy if needed
    2) put the gun in your car

    Sitting there and arguing is not a choice.

    Pick a choice.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 03-22-2012 at 09:32 PM.

  16. #41
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Good meeting with the Sheriff!
    Looking forward to the next chapter, meeting with the Mayor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverfox44
    OMG. I live in WA State and here we do not use the word BOY referring to you.
    I think it might be more of the "I was powerless, now I can screw the rest of you" reaction.
    Think about it - that term, esp. in that context (powerful to powerless) - is most often used toward blacks.
    Wouldn't surprise me if the chief had been on the receiving end a few hundred times.
    Doesn't excuse him being a bully.

    If I'm trying to get the attention of a minor, I might say "hey, kid".
    Might even use that with someone considerably younger than me, say half my age.
    And I have referred to someone's child as "your boy" (or "his boy").
    But only in jest & with someone I knew would take it as a joke would I use "boy" in the way in which the chief did with the OP.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-23-2012 at 12:45 PM.

  17. #42
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    Am I correct in thinking that in Louisiana is it legal to take an audio recording of a conversation so long as one or more parties to the conversation consent?

    http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78938

    I was quite sure of this before I recorded anything, and I've been told this before by other people. It appears that the law says this pretty plainly. I just wanted to double-check to confirm. My friend recorded the conversation with Sheriff Williams. I consented for him to do so. We were not secretive about it, and he held his phone out the entire time in plain sight.

    If everything is cool, I will share the conversation. I think you guys will be pleased with what the Sheriff had to say. The purpose is not to make him look bad at all, as it in fact makes him appear knowledgeable and polite (which he was). He's a good guy, and I trust that the St Helena deputies under his command will all be up to speed on OC. So next we need to make sure this is handled at the city level.

    @ MKEgal: Of course not! Police officers, even the chief, should NOT be bullies! And we will hold them accountable for it as free citizens.

  18. #43
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    I think that might be right, but don't take anyone's word for it - look it up yourself. We're not your lawyers. Maybe go find some cases that involve the statute.

    As a matter of etiquette, you say he had the phone out but was its recording nature also apparent? And was the possibility that the tape would end up on the internet mentioned or implied? A summary with highlights is good enough, I think; no need to have the recording online.
    Last edited by Seigi; 03-26-2012 at 05:26 PM.

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