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Thread: Florida "Stand Your Ground" Law May Be Changed

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Florida "Stand Your Ground" Law May Be Changed

    On Wednesday, Baxley [FL Rep. and author of 2005 SYG law] told CBS News that it's time for a new look at "Stand Your Ground."
    "We need to look at the circumstances that occurred and see if some kind of legislation is in order," Baxley said.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...-seek-changes/


    Great. Just great.

    A perfectly good law may get tinkered with because of the Zimmerman shooting.

    Ah, well. Maybe they'll make it better.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I don't get it. The law says you may me "meet force with force". If what the media says is true, then "no force was met with deadly force" and Zimmerman has no protection under the law.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    No Way.

    screw'em again
    Last edited by IrishRifles; 03-22-2012 at 10:57 PM.

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    The funny thing is you were supposed to keep and bear arms to stop them from using illegal, unconstitutional commie legislation to control you, and none of you, NOT ONE, will ever do so. You will kick and scream, and in the end, they will "legislate" away your right to even own guns. They've played this game in a dozen countries already. If you fail to learn from history, and understand the REAL PURPOSE of having guns, then you have no reason to complain.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishRifles View Post
    No way! No more compromising our rights with the liberal anti-gunners. If law abiding gun owning Floridians let these politically correct politicians cave to B/S pressure from professional agitators, the loss of this law is the beginning of the end for gun owners in our state.
    Uh-oh. Looks like the game is on.

    Chris Smith, a black Florida state senator, announced on Wednesday he is drafting new legislation to "drastically" change that law, which he said has increased deaths in the state due to "self-defense" by more than 250 percent. The law originally was promoted by the National Rifle Association, the nation's leading gun rights group, and opposed by many in law enforcement.

    "We can't keep turning a blind eye to the number of lives this law has claimed," Smith said in a statement. "'Stand Your Ground' in its present form continues to endanger Floridians by not only giving someone the right to shoot first, but immunity for their actions, whether justified or not."


    http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters...of_slain_teen/

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    Uh-oh. Looks like the game is on.

    Chris Smith, a black Florida state senator, announced on Wednesday he is drafting new legislation to "drastically" change that law,.... ]
    You know, you just can't jump on the bandwagon fast enough if you're in the Florida legislature for sure!!

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Just goes to show you..

    All that hard legal work, money and effort by the law abiding community and it only takes one moron to F it all up for everyone else.

    If any of you folks know any of these wannabe "hero's" make sure you give them a good education on the law and that the world is full of enough idiots as it i.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Linch Mob

    I shake my head on how many of us have a linch mob mentality. We are quick to pass judgement on hear say evidence that wouldn't even be admissible in a court. We are quick to believe a group of people that is knowingly anti gun and presents the news with that bias. We on one had say we need to always carry but when someone needs to use the weapon we run and armchair quarterback. "...if I were in this situation, I'd..." Have we lost all sense of sanity in this country? Obviously you have never been in that situation so stop bloviating and let the wheals of justice turn. How do we know that this Police Chief doesn't have an agenda to work this whole thing into the frenzy that it is today because he is anti gun.

    Hang this man out to dry and hang him high if you must but remember if ever you need to use your weapon to protect your friends, neighbors, or yourself that you'll be standing alone against a giant that will not give you the chance to tell your side of the story. In other words this could be you.

    I'm not saying this man was right or wrong but I'm sure not going to swallow hook, line, and sinker what the anti, agenda driven media puts out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packer fan View Post
    I shake my head on how many of us have a linch mob mentality. We are quick to pass judgement on hear say evidence that wouldn't even be admissible in a court. We are quick to believe a group of people that is knowingly anti gun and presents the news with that bias. We on one had say we need to always carry but when someone needs to use the weapon we run and armchair quarterback. "...if I were in this situation, I'd..." Have we lost all sense of sanity in this country? Obviously you have never been in that situation so stop bloviating and let the wheals of justice turn. How do we know that this Police Chief doesn't have an agenda to work this whole thing into the frenzy that it is today because he is anti gun.

    Hang this man out to dry and hang him high if you must but remember if ever you need to use your weapon to protect your friends, neighbors, or yourself that you'll be standing alone against a giant that will not give you the chance to tell your side of the story. In other words this could be you.

    I'm not saying this man was right or wrong but I'm sure not going to swallow hook, line, and sinker what the anti, agenda driven media puts out.
    And just another reason to confirm the need to VOTE OUT every one of the back-stabbing ********** in Tally this year. And to let them know-when the campaign calls start coming in soon- to PASS OC, and leave SYG the fck alone or it's BYE-BYE.

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    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    And just another reason to confirm the need to VOTE OUT every one of the back-stabbing ********** in Tally this year. And to let them know-when the campaign calls start coming in soon- to PASS OC, and leave SYG the fck alone or it's BYE-BYE.
    The great Bob Dylan said: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

    This is not the time for OC. We will be lucky if we keep SYG. Despite the fact that SYG has kept many innocent, law-abiding citizens from prosecution, it's now become the media's whipping boy during the most precarious period of all: an election year. We need prayer.

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    Thumbs up

    Best of luck to my friends in Florida as you fight to maintain what is left of your rights.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    "which he said has increased deaths in the state due to "self-defense" by more than 250 percent"

    In itself a meaningless statement, to which I say "so what?" I'm not losing sleep over self-defense shootings. Smith, like so many black politicians, only gives a damn because blacks are getting themselves killed. He wouldn't have said a word about eviscerating Stand Your Ground if the victim in this case were hispanic or white.

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    I totally agree. I see your from Mountain Home, I have family there. I usually get up there once a year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Packer fan View Post
    I shake my head on how many of us have a linch mob mentality. We are quick to pass judgement on hear say evidence that wouldn't even be admissible in a court. We are quick to believe a group of people that is knowingly anti gun and presents the news with that bias. We on one had say we need to always carry but when someone needs to use the weapon we run and armchair quarterback. "...if I were in this situation, I'd..." Have we lost all sense of sanity in this country? Obviously you have never been in that situation so stop bloviating and let the wheals of justice turn. How do we know that this Police Chief doesn't have an agenda to work this whole thing into the frenzy that it is today because he is anti gun.

    Hang this man out to dry and hang him high if you must but remember if ever you need to use your weapon to protect your friends, neighbors, or yourself that you'll be standing alone against a giant that will not give you the chance to tell your side of the story. In other words this could be you.

    I'm not saying this man was right or wrong but I'm sure not going to swallow hook, line, and sinker what the anti, agenda driven media puts out.

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    If ever there were a time for a massive, OC rally/event in Fla..

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Why change it? Trevvon stood his ground, but his Stalker upped the stakes with a weapon. Even if Trevvon overstepped his response and became an aggressor, Zimmerman used deadly force in response to what amounted to a simple battery.

    Mr. Zimmerman placed himself in a situation where he had to defend himself as a result of his own negligent actions. Voluntary manslaughter at best.

    Chasing someone down and confronting them when no knowledge of a crime is present will pretty much gut any stand your ground defense.

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Why change it? Trevvon stood his ground, but his Stalker upped the stakes with a weapon. Even if Trevvon overstepped his response and became an aggressor, Zimmerman used deadly force in response to what amounted to a simple battery.

    Mr. Zimmerman placed himself in a situation where he had to defend himself as a result of his own negligent actions. Voluntary manslaughter at best.

    Chasing someone down and confronting them when no knowledge of a crime is present will pretty much gut any stand your ground defense.
    I have to agree.
    How many discussions have been on this forum about when you should use your firearm for a defensive situation? Far too many t count, right?

    Following some kid around the neighborhood, no matter how menacing he looked is not a valid reason to use a firearm in self defense. Especially when dispatch tells you not to.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packer fan View Post
    I shake my head on how many of us have a linch mob mentality. We are quick to pass judgement on hear say evidence that wouldn't even be admissible in a court. We are quick to believe a group of people that is knowingly anti gun and presents the news with that bias. We on one had say we need to always carry but when someone needs to use the weapon we run and armchair quarterback. "...if I were in this situation, I'd..." Have we lost all sense of sanity in this country? Obviously you have never been in that situation so stop bloviating and let the wheals of justice turn. How do we know that this Police Chief doesn't have an agenda to work this whole thing into the frenzy that it is today because he is anti gun.

    Hang this man out to dry and hang him high if you must but remember if ever you need to use your weapon to protect your friends, neighbors, or yourself that you'll be standing alone against a giant that will not give you the chance to tell your side of the story. In other words this could be you.

    I'm not saying this man was right or wrong but I'm sure not going to swallow hook, line, and sinker what the anti, agenda driven media puts out.
    +1 sir. None of us can say we know the facts. None of us were there, and to pass judgment without first seeing ALL the evidence is just wrong. You might as well go work for major media if you want to do that. Packer fan has a point. Put yourself in Mr. Z's shoes. Right or wrong wouldn't you like to have a chance to at least tell your side of the story.

    I currently live in Virginia, but only because I am military. I would one day love to come back to the great state of FL but if FL looses SYG I just might have to consider staying in VA. At least in VA SYG is not codified. It is backed by years of case law, therefor it is not as easy to mess with currently. FLCarry if there is anything I can do to support you guys and help to keep SYG the way it is please let me know. Like I said I hope to one day return to FL but I don't want to give up my 2A right to do so.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    I have to agree.
    How many discussions have been on this forum about when you should use your firearm for a defensive situation? Far too many t count, right?

    Following some kid around the neighborhood, no matter how menacing he looked is not a valid reason to use a firearm in self defense. Especially when dispatch tells you not to.
    I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you and lockman on this matter. Simple battery sure, but if Trayvon had the upper hand as the 'story' goes and was on top of him he could have easily found Mr. Z's gun and used it against him. As far as I can say in a situation like that where a fist fight has been taken to the ground how hard would it have been for Trayvon to discovered his gun and take it? The story would have been much different today had that happened. To save himself from having his gun used against him I could see how he could be in fear enough for his own life to use deadly force. That is given the information the media has allowed us to see is completely accurate. Again I stress that none of us were there and to pass judgment and say 'well what he did was wrong' is just unfair. None of us were put in that situation that night, and to say you wouldn't have reacted the same way you just can say for sure. We can all play events out in our heads but to say they go exactly to plan isn't necessarily always the case. Just something to think about.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

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    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiK_SacK View Post
    I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you and lockman on this matter. Simple battery sure, but if Trayvon had the upper hand as the 'story' goes and was on top of him he could have easily found Mr. Z's gun and used it against him. As far as I can say in a situation like that where a fist fight has been taken to the ground how hard would it have been for Trayvon to discovered his gun and take it? The story would have been much different today had that happened. To save himself from having his gun used against him I could see how he could be in fear enough for his own life to use deadly force. That is given the information the media has allowed us to see is completely accurate. Again I stress that none of us were there and to pass judgment and say 'well what he did was wrong' is just unfair. None of us were put in that situation that night, and to say you wouldn't have reacted the same way you just can say for sure. We can all play events out in our heads but to say they go exactly to plan isn't necessarily always the case. Just something to think about.
    Not just that. Being beaten to death is not unheard of: it is a very real possibility regardless of the age/weight differential (especially if one knew how to scrap and the other one didn't). If the eyewitnesses reports are true that TM was on top of Zimmerman, and was pounding him (to the point of bloody injuries on his face and the back of his head) before Zimmerman pulled out his gun, it's clearly justifiable homicide: self-defense. Because of the fact, however, that Zimmerman pursued TM against police orders, he assumed the risk of what might happen, and may have been negligent in his refusal to obey police orders. Negligence is not murder.

    The fact remains, though, that a reasonable person with a CCL would not have placed him/herself in this type of position. We would not pursue after being told not to, and we wouldn't've taken a neighborhood watch job seriously enough to land ourselves in this kind of mess. A reasonable person would know where neighborhood watch stops and law enforcement begins. Zimmerman's pursuit, objectively, seems like outright vigilantism, and it has made law-abiding gun owners look like Nazis. If steps are taken to repeal SYG because of something that seems to have landed outside of SYG's scope, then this Zipperhead character will have placed our most basic right, self-defense, in jeopardy: he will have f**ked it up for the rest of us.

  20. #20
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Why change it? Trevvon stood his ground, but his Stalker upped the stakes with a weapon.
    Know you've coined the guy a stalker, which liberal media outlet do your work for?

  21. #21
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    ...how How many discussions have been on this forum about when you should use your firearm for a defensive situation? Far too many t count, right?

    I think you have that reversed; People have over-and-over stated if someone is kicking their ass and feel their life is at risk would use deadly force. Far too many to count!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    Following some kid around the neighborhood, no matter menacing he looked is not a valid reason to use a firearm in self defense. Especially when dispatch tells you not to.
    When looking past media and community fabricated racial hype, you can see that regardless of how dumb anyone thinks Zimmerman was he did nothing that was against the law. His following a suspicious kid in the neighborhood even when dispatcher advised against violated no laws. People need to start refocusing on fact, and not color.
    Last edited by jbone; 03-26-2012 at 01:23 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    Not just that. Being beaten to death is not unheard of: it is a very real possibility regardless of the age/weight differential (especially if one knew how to scrap and the other one didn't). If the eyewitnesses reports are true that TM was on top of Zimmerman, and was pounding him (to the point of bloody injuries on his face and the back of his head) before Zimmerman pulled out his gun, it's clearly justifiable homicide: self-defense. Because of the fact, however, that Zimmerman pursued TM against police orders, he assumed the risk of what might happen, and may have been negligent in his refusal to obey police orders. Negligence is not murder.

    The fact remains, though, that a reasonable person with a CCL would not have placed him/herself in this type of position. We would not pursue after being told not to, and we wouldn't've taken a neighborhood watch job seriously enough to land ourselves in this kind of mess. A reasonable person would know where neighborhood watch stops and law enforcement begins. Zimmerman's pursuit, objectively, seems like outright vigilantism, and it has made law-abiding gun owners look like Nazis. If steps are taken to repeal SYG because of something that seems to have landed outside of SYG's scope, then this Zipperhead character will have placed our most basic right, self-defense, in jeopardy: he will have f**ked it up for the rest of us.
    I agree that it would probably have been best not to approach the 6'2'' 240 lb "kid". That's beyond the scope of neighborhood watch. However, the cops always say not to do anything. In South Africa, they even advised women to insert condoms with razors into their vaginas in case they are raped.

    I take the position that every citizen has the same power as cops. It's just that in theory, we pay cops to be professional, full time watchers with extra training, experience, tactics, etc. As such, I don't condemn Zimmerman for approaching. I see a responsible citizen, pending reception of all the facts.
    Last edited by 77zach; 03-26-2012 at 03:16 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  23. #23
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    No one in their right mind would change law before this case's investigation is done, right? Yah right!


    The anti-guns nuts will start going into overtime on this one since the facts are starting to emerge that the kid was the attacker, yes the sweet little kid who was kicked out of school for POT. The sweet little boy is beginning to be seen as the 6' 3" 150 pound adult attacker.

  24. #24
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    No one in their right mind would change law before this case's investigation is done, right? Yah right!


    The anti-guns nuts will start going into overtime on this one since the facts are starting to emerge that the kid was the attacker, yes the sweet little kid who was kicked out of school for POT. The sweet little boy is beginning to be seen as the 6' 3" 150 pound adult attacker.

    The "diversity" in the Fl legislature will surely attempt to get rid of as much self defense protection as they can. It's important to them that only police and abortionists kill black people, and lots of them.

    The media treatment of this case is truly frightening. Having a "free press" is really a sick joke.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    Uh-oh. Looks like the game is on.

    Chris Smith, a black Florida state senator, announced on Wednesday he is drafting new legislation to "drastically" change that law, which he said has increased deaths in the state due to "self-defense" by more than 250 percent. The law originally was promoted by the National Rifle Association, the nation's leading gun rights group, and opposed by many in law enforcement.

    "We can't keep turning a blind eye to the number of lives this law has claimed," Smith said in a statement. "'Stand Your Ground' in its present form continues to endanger Floridians by not only giving someone the right to shoot first, but immunity for their actions, whether justified or not."


    http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters...of_slain_teen/
    Laws don't claim lives (although the enforcement of them can be said to, thanks to out of control police), and they don't dictate individual behavior.

    Not that you can expect a statist to understand that.

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