Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: new WI DHS policies

  1. #1
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426

    Angry new WI DHS policies

    .
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-21-2012 at 10:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  2. #2
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    We need to FOIA & challenge these policies.
    I understand that part of AD 81.0 prohibits carry/storage in a car if there's a security fence (to prevent theft, not escape),
    and part goes into great detail about how the pistol must be stored in the locked car.
    [Locked case, not in view, in a locked vehicle... all of which is perfectly sensible advice, but what business does the state - or any employer - have regulating it?]

    Also, it'd be interesting to compare the interim rules with the perm. ones.

    From: DHS Executive Assistant Kevin Moore
    Subject: Employee Policy on Carrying a Concealed Weapon
    Importance: High

    Good Afternoon,

    I am pleased to share with you the Department of Health Services employee and contractor policy on carrying a concealed weapon. Secretary Smith has approved the new administrative directive, 81.0, which is effective today, March 20, 2012. Administrative Directive 81.0, the Employee Policy on Carrying a Concealed Weapon, replaces the interim policy that has been in place since November 1, 2011.

    Please click on the links below to review the new Administrative Directive as well as other workplace rules and directives that have been changed to reflect the new policy change.

    Administrative Directive 81.0 - Employee Policy on Carrying a Concealed Weapon - This is a new administrative directive impacting all Department employees and contractors.

    ∑ Administrative Directive 73.2 - Violence and Threats in the Workplace: Zero Tolerance - This is an existing administrative directive that has been updated to reflect the new concealed weapon directive.

    Department of Health Services Work Rules - The Departmentís work rules have also been updated to reflect the new concealed weapon directive.

    In the next week, the Department will provide training for employees on the new employee and contractor policy on carrying a concealed weapon. This training will be done using Adobe Connect and is mandatory for all DHS employees and contractors.

    The following are key provisions of the new employee policy on carrying a concealed weapon:
    ∑ Concealed weapons are prohibited by all employees, contractors, and the public at the Wisconsin Resource Center, Wisconsin Womenís Resource Center and Sand Ridge Secure Treatment Center.

    ∑ Concealed weapons are prohibited by all employees, contractors, and the public in buildings at the Mendota Mental Health Institute, Winnebago Mental Health Institute, Central Wisconsin Center, Northern Wisconsin Center and Southern Wisconsin Center. State law does not allow for the Department to ban concealed weapons on the campus.

    ∑ With certain exceptions, licensees who are employees, contractors, or members of the public are permitted to carry concealed weapons at 1 West Wilson and DHS regional offices.

    ∑ Employees, contractors and the public are prohibited from openly carrying weapons or firearms in any DHS building.

    ∑ The employee policy on carrying a concealed weapon is not an endorsement for any licensee to carry during business hours.


    Should you have any questions on the new work policy or the work rules, please feel free to contact your human resources representative.

    Thank you in advance for your time.

    Sincerely,

    Kevin Moore
    Executive Assistant
    Department of Health Services
    Office of the Secretary
    1 W Wilson St., Room 650
    Madison, WI
    53703
    Phone: 608-266-9622
    Fax: 608-266-7882
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-21-2012 at 10:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    That's what I thought...
    175.60 (15) (m) says that an employer can prohibit employees from carrying a concealed weapon while at work, except in the person's own vehicle.
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/175/60/15m

    Doesn't say they're allowed to prohibit OC at all.
    Yes, now we're getting into private property laws, etc. But in this case, we're talking about a state agency, so that doesn't apply. And it especially can't apply to the public, over which the agency has no power or control.

    ETA: this would also deal with the "no OC" rule at the Capitol.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-22-2012 at 02:07 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Milwaukee Wisconsin
    Posts
    542
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    That's what I thought...
    175.60 (15) (m) says that an employer can prohibit employees from carrying a concealed weapon while at work, except in the person's own vehicle.
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/175/60/15m

    Doesn't say they're allowed to prohibit OC at all.
    Yes, now we're getting into private property laws, etc. But in this case, we're talking about a state agency, so that doesn't apply. And it especially can't apply to the public, over which the agency has no power or control.

    ETA: this would also deal with the "no OC" rule at the Capitol.
    I think the person who wrote this policy, made the same assumption that is mistakenly made in other situations:

    They assume that a Concealed Carry License, only gives you the privilege to carry a firearm concealed. That is not true, of course.

    Wisconsin 941.235 Carrying firearm in public building
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...es/941/III/235

    Prohibits any person from going armed with a firearm in a building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivisions. (does not specify open carry or concealed)

    This prohibition does not apply to LEOs, former LEOs and CCL Licensees. So THIS statute does not prohibit CCL licensess from open or concealed carry of firearms in governmental buildings.

    -------------------------------------

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...utes/943/II/13

    Wis statute 943.13 "Trespass to Land" (actually deals with buildings, as well)
    ...
    943.13(1m) (1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    ...
    943.13(1m)(c)4. Enters or remains in any part of a building that is owned, occupied, or controlled by the state or any local governmental unit, excluding any building or portion of a building under s. 175.60 (16) (a), if the state or local governmental unit has notified the actor not to enter or remain in the building while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a person who leases residential or business premises in the building or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of the building used as a parking facility.
    Anyone who has read the DHS policies, and knew them to be official, would be considered to be notified. Posting signs on the entrances to buildings, to the effect of no Open Carry Firearms, would notify anyone else.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

  5. #5
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    if the state or local governmental unit has notified the actor not to enter or remain in the building while carrying a firearm
    943.13(1m)(c)4 [above] says they can ban carry entirely (which, since the overall controlling state office has decided won't happen, can't happen in their department), but I don't see where it says they can ban only open carry.

    There is a law saying they can prohibit concealed carry by employees: 175.60(15)(m)

    I think you may be right, though - someone is misreading the law to say that only concealed carry is allowed in a taxpayer-owned building. Really, it's the other way around - the only method they can ban is concealed carry.

    If someone can point out what statute I've overlooked, or convince me I'm misreading, I'd be much obliged.

    I hope eventually to turn this over to WCI & let their attorneys chew on DHS.
    The Capitol, too, is trying to say they can ban OC while allowing cc.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-23-2012 at 02:09 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •