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Thread: Moving to West Jordan...need some pointers please!!

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    Moving to West Jordan...need some pointers please!!

    Hi all, I currently live in Ohio and here soon I plan on moving to Utah. Now I know all the laws regarding open carry for both permit holders and people who do not have permits. Which here OC is legal without a CHL. But you must have a CHL to get into a vehicle with your sidearm loaded. I OC almost all the time except in winter for obvious reasons. I would like to do the same there when I get there...but can you guys please tell me all I need to know or point me in the right direction to find out. Any information about laws regarding with and without a CHL would be handy please. Thanks ahead of time.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Welcome to Utah, whose State Constitution supports your right to OC (with very few restrictions on where)! It's pretty-much the same as in OH for carry in a vehicle. For full details on Utah carry laws see: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/Fir....html#Carrying . If you would like to see the laws with translations into plain English (but they aren't that clumsy even in legalese), pick up a copy of a softbound book called Utah Gun Law IV, by Mitch Vilos, probably available from Amazon. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-24-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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    Welcome

    We will see you when you get here. Great place to live.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IxionDeece View Post
    Hi all, I currently live in Ohio and ... here OC is legal without a CHL. But you must have a CHL to get into a vehicle with your sidearm loaded...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223
    Welcome to Utah,...It's pretty-much the same as in OH for carry in a vehicle...
    I'm gonna have to correct this one, though.

    In a vehicle, UT has one of the best laws in the country. No permit of any kind is required for an adult over the age of 18 to have a fully-loaded handgun anywhere in their vehicle, concealed or not, including concealed on their person. This is written into the state laws to exempt a permit for carrying in a vehicle, and to expressly grant this even to 18-year-olds.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-25-2012 at 02:14 AM.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I'm gonna have to correct this one, though.

    In a vehicle, UT has one of the best laws in the country. No permit of any kind is required for an adult over the age of 18 to have a fully-loaded handgun anywhere in their vehicle, concealed or not, including concealed on their person. This is written into the state laws to exempt a permit for carrying in a vehicle, and to expressly grant this even to 18-year-olds.
    I'm going to have to correct the correction... directly from the Utah Code:

    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
    (i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
    (ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
    (b) on a public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
    (3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
    (4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

    Since concealment is not specifically addressed in this section of the statute, I would caution you against assuming that you may have the handgun concealed upon your person or anywhere in the vehicle - UNLESS YOU HAVE A CFP/CHP/CCW/CWP from somewhere. A note from your mother will not suffice. If one is going to make a mistake, it's always best to "err on the side of caution". Pax...
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    You need to read that law more carefully, please. It says exactly what I did. If you are 18+, you can have a loaded handgun in a car, and there are no further restrictions.

    Here is the summary of UCA 76-10-505 provided to us state-certified UT BCI Firearms Instructors:
    Quote Originally Posted by UT BCI Firearms Instructor Certification Course
    A person may carry a loaded and concealed firearm in a vehicle if:
    -The person is 18 years old
    -In in lawful possession of the vehicle
    -Other occupant has consent from the person in lawful control
    -Allowance extends to handguns only
    (emphasis was theirs.)

    If you disagree with this interpretation, I highly recommend you call the UT Bureau of Criminal ID, as this is what they are teaching the state-certified firearms instructors.

    And remember a principal tenet on this site. The law prohibits things. It does not allow things.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    You need to read that law more carefully, please. It says exactly what I did. If you are 18+, you can have a loaded handgun in a car, and there are no further restrictions.

    Here is the summary of UCA 76-10-505 provided to us state-certified UT BCI Firearms Instructorsemphasis was theirs.)

    If you disagree with this interpretation, I highly recommend you call the UT Bureau of Criminal ID, as this is what they are teaching the state-certified firearms instructors.

    And remember a principal tenet on this site. The law prohibits things. It does not allow things.
    Although my 8:27am post is "THE LAW" exactly as written - copied and pasted directly from http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050000.htm - it does not state that one may have a concealed weapon in a vehicle without a CFP. My advice was simply to "err on the side of caution" in order to avoid the possibility of being jacked around by some LEO who doesn't know what modifications may have been made to the UCA. People can and will do whatever they please. Too bad all LEO's aren't "state-certified firearms instructors", then they would have access to that interpretation as well as to the UCA. (I'd be willing to bet that the majority of LEO's don't know the BCI interpretation) I have to wonder why 'the powers that be' haven't updated the UCA with the BCI interpretation, just to keep us all on the same page?) Thanks for the additional information, Mac! Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-25-2012 at 04:57 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Although my 8:27am post is "THE LAW" exactly as written - copied and pasted directly from http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050000.htm - it does not state that one may have a concealed weapon in a vehicle without a CFP. My advice was simply to "err on the side of caution" in order to avoid the possibility of being jacked around by some LEO who doesn't know what modifications may have been made to the UCA....
    The law also does not state that you can have a chili dog for lunch.

    There is no modification involved here, just a reading of the law as written without assuming it means something more strict.

    I won't try to argue that laws are generally easy to read, though.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-25-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I won't try to argue that laws are generally easy to read, though.
    If laws were written in easy-to-read everyday language, there would be no need for the bloodsucking professional practitioners of the interpretation of our laws. Hence, the laws - written by those practitioners - are intentionally bifurcated ("see also", "as amended by", etc.) and vague. Pax...
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    Regular Member colormered's Avatar
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    Concealed or open carry in a vehicle

    76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
    (1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.

    It mentions no requirement for a permit, nor does it require the firearm to be unloaded.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    There is no modification involved here, just a reading of the law as written without assuming it means something more strict.
    The modification to the "car carry" law was made during the 2009 Utah State Legislative session, making it what it is today. My information was outdated, but I still believe in "better safe than sorry" for those who do not have a CFP. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-26-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    If you wish. I'm sure you see why I had to correct 'car carry is just like it is in Ohio...' But I'm not going to argue what is and is not the law in UT any further.

    You can keep it locked up in the trunk even with a CFP if you wish to really avoid any ignorant LEO's.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    If you wish. I'm sure you see why I had to correct 'car carry is just like it is in Ohio...'
    The correct quote would be, "It's pretty-much the same as in OH", meaning not "just like", but somewhat similar. Fini, Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-28-2012 at 02:04 PM.
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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Welcome to Utah. I will not enter the fray above, but did wish to welcome you. And to provide a bit of advice. Even if you have a Ohio CHL, I advise you to get a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

    Jim
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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