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Thread: Gun on his hip, state Sen. Arlan Meekhof demonstrates his support for allowing CC

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Gun on his hip, state Sen. Arlan Meekhof demonstrates his support for allowing CC

    snip-

    A state lawmaker pulled back his jacket today in a Senate committee hearing to reveal his holstered gun, a dramatic statement in support of carrying concealed pistols in areas now banned.

    State Sen. Arlan Meekhof, R-West Olive, said he almost always carries the concealed gun during Senate business, which is legal for permit holders.

    link(some help in the comment section would be nice)-

    http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...sen_arlan.html
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    The idiotic comments on that page makes my head hurt.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    It's worth noting, MOC doesn't consider IWB Carry (unless the gun is between the belt and waistband and not truly in the waistband) to be "Open Carry". At least one Michigan Court has said so.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    The article said that those wishing to carry concealed in PFZ would have to undergo an additional 9 hours of training and fire 94 rounds. What exactly does this 9 hours of training consist of, what material does the state expect citizens to become competent in?
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Sounds like Personal Pertection Outside the Home Level 1

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdr_iceman71 View Post
    The article said that those wishing to carry concealed in PFZ would have to undergo an additional 9 hours of training and fire 94 rounds. What exactly does this 9 hours of training consist of, what material does the state expect citizens to become competent in?
    The training will be basically the NRA personal defense outside the home. The details are being worked on. The state doesn't expect anything from the training, it's there to placate the public and others that may oppose the bill. It was mentioned that Michigan will have the best trained CPL holders in the country, or at least the most expensive CPLs...
    Special offer - buy a copy of "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" and get a free copy of "Bond of Unseen Blood" Go to http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    or at least the most expensive CPLs...

    The most liberty oriented CPLs too. Show me another state that has a concealment license where the only place you couldn't carry is state-overseen casinos and courts. Even the so-called "Constitutional Carry" states have restrictions.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Wonderful news. Thanks to all of us who called the committee members. Our calls do matter. I just have to ask......who was the NO vote?
    Last edited by Ken56; 03-22-2012 at 07:26 PM.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The most liberty oriented CPLs too. Show me another state that has a concealment license where the only place you couldn't carry is state-overseen casinos and courts. Even the so-called "Constitutional Carry" states have restrictions.
    We ain't there yet, lets not count our chickens... I don't know all the states laws, but some states have very few GFZs and lower costs with no training requirements. Many states have no requirements to carry most anywhere OC as well as CC in their vehicles.
    Special offer - buy a copy of "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" and get a free copy of "Bond of Unseen Blood" Go to http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    The training will be basically the NRA personal defense outside the home. The details are being worked on. The state doesn't expect anything from the training, it's there to placate the public and others that may oppose the bill. It was mentioned that Michigan will have the best trained CPL holders in the country, or at least the most expensive CPLs...
    Most expensive YES!For those who cannot afford it,this does nothing for their ability to exercise their Right! He should have taken his hanky(like a magician would) and place it over his gun,showing the difference between OC and CC,and the difference in cost between the two! Why does common sense take sooooo looooong!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken56 View Post
    Wonderful news. Thanks to all of us who called the committee members. Our calls do matter. I just have to ask......who was the NO vote?

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1776451&type=1

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    The training will be basically the NRA personal defense outside the home. The details are being worked on. The state doesn't expect anything from the training, it's there to placate the public and others that may oppose the bill. It was mentioned that Michigan will have the best trained CPL holders in the country, or at least the most expensive CPLs...
    Probably both, I see the additional training to cost 50 to 150 dollars additional, or whatever the NRA class costs if you were to take it as a stand alone class.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The most liberty oriented CPLs too. Show me another state that has a concealment license where the only place you couldn't carry is state-overseen casinos and courts. Even the so-called "Constitutional Carry" states have restrictions.
    The statement brought up another worry, will we loose reciprical agreements with other states? Since or restrictions have been lowered? That would certainly be a serious concern. Right now MI CPL's are the most recognized license to be had.

    1 last thing could we get a non-resident license abillity in this bill?? That would be a great way for some extra funds for MI.
    Last edited by NHCGRPR45; 03-23-2012 at 12:29 AM.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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    Although the restrictions are lowered, the training is raised, so we shouldnt lose the right to carry in other states. We will be better trained than their own resident CPL holders.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Probably both, I see the additional training to cost 50 to 150 dollars additional, or whatever the NRA class costs if you were to take it as a stand alone class.



    The statement brought up another worry, will we loose reciprical agreements with other states? Since or restrictions have been lowered? That would certainly be a serious concern. Right now MI CPL's are the most recognized license to be had.

    1 last thing could we get a non-resident license abillity in this bill?? That would be a great way for some extra funds for MI.
    Please show me where in this bill we lose reciprocity? I simply don't see it. Our training requirement are actually becoming slightly harder. And if we started issuing non-resident permits we could risk losing reciprocity. Reference the state of Nevada regarding all states that issued non-resident permits.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  15. #15
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    The statement brought up another worry, will we loose reciprical agreements with other states? Since or restrictions have been lowered?
    Huh? How would where our state allows its own residents to carry have any effect on another state? You keep coming up with niggling little arguments that don't make sense. Who are you and what have you done with NCHEDOIINVLSJO47859374H3OH?

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    The statement brought up another worry, will we loose reciprical agreements with other states? Since or restrictions have been lowered? That would certainly be a serious concern. Right now MI CPL's are the most recognized license to be had.

    1 last thing could we get a non-resident license abillity in this bill?? That would be a great way for some extra funds for MI.
    The worse that would happen is foreign states won't recognize the PFZ aspect of our CPL. "When in Rome,. do as Romans do". If State X doesn't allow bar carry you may not be permitted to carry in a bar there, despite your MI Exemption.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Isnt it that way now though?

    I think the new law is great. (if it passes)

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The worse that would happen is foreign states won't recognize the PFZ aspect of our CPL. "When in Rome,. do as Romans do". If State X doesn't allow bar carry you may not be permitted to carry in a bar there, despite your MI Exemption.
    I was thinking about something today regarding this. I believe the state of Missouri has a similar law in that if you take extra training you are exempt from PFZs. What if more states start doing this? I wonder if we and other states will start granting not only reciprocity/recognition of the permit but also being exempt from PFZs.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    slowly, I would think so.

    Its a step towards Constitutional Carry.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 03-23-2012 at 01:38 AM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I was thinking about something today regarding this. I believe the state of Missouri has a similar law in that if you take extra training you are exempt from PFZs. What if more states start doing this? I wonder if we and other states will start granting not only reciprocity/recognition of the permit but also being exempt from PFZs.

    Concerns about reciprocity handling of the additional exemption is probably something best hammered out in another bill after we have some experience behind us with this bill. I don't see this bill harming our reciprocity.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  21. #21
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Concerns about reciprocity handling of the additional exemption is probably something best hammered out in another bill after we have some experience behind us with this bill. I don't see this bill harming our reciprocity.
    I understand I'm just saying now that this seems to be a trend maybe there will be reciprocation for it. Hopefully we can get full reciprocity back in this state in another bill, the way it was when we were may issue.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  22. #22
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Huh? How would where our state allows its own residents to carry have any effect on another state? You keep coming up with niggling little arguments that don't make sense. Who are you and what have you done with NCHEDOIINVLSJO47859374H3OH?

    Bronson

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Probably both, I see the additional training to cost 50 to 150 dollars additional, or whatever the NRA class costs if you were to take it as a stand alone class.



    The statement brought up another worry, will we loose reciprical agreements with other states? Since or restrictions have been lowered? That would certainly be a serious concern. Right now MI CPL's are the most recognized license to be had.

    1 last thing could we get a non-resident license abillity in this bill?? That would be a great way for some extra funds for MI.
    Actually the change increases the standards just by raising the number of shots fired for a regular CPL. Nothing other changes in that regard.

    If you want to CC in our PFZ, you have to TAKE MORE training. So over all Michigan requires more training than any state.

    I don't see our reciprocity changing at all.
    Special offer - buy a copy of "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" and get a free copy of "Bond of Unseen Blood" Go to http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member G22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Actually the change increases the standards just by raising the number of shots fired for a regular CPL. Nothing other changes in that regard.

    If you want to CC in our PFZ, you have to TAKE MORE training. So over all Michigan requires more training than any state.

    I don't see our reciprocity changing at all.
    I've taken HG1 twice, HG2 once, and carbine1 from MDFI. Close to 1000rds each class. While I have not taken PPOTH NRA class, I dare say that MDFI is far better...but most likely cannot be used to fulfill the requirements.

    I also don't see reciprocity changing. When in another state we already have to abide by their rules, not those of Michigan.
    Last edited by G22; 03-23-2012 at 11:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The most liberty oriented CPLs too. Show me another state that has a concealment license where the only place you couldn't carry is state-overseen casinos and courts. Even the so-called "Constitutional Carry" states have restrictions.
    In Idaho, the only places off limits to those concealing with a permit are courthouses, jails, and K-12 schools. If you are open carrying with/without a permit, you are only prohibited from K-12 schools.

    Are you allowed to carry concealed in jails in Michigan?

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