Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Michigan Possibly getting to carry in school zones ????

  1. #1
    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    382

    Michigan Possibly getting to carry in school zones ????

    I saw this posted from the NRA on Facebook. I'm curious how the state law is going to trump fed gfsz law. Is it going to be like CA's medical pot law that locals allow but the DEA steps all over ??? If someone in Michigan defends themselves and is cleared are they going to be charged on the fed level?? And as far as churches go I don't see why they are even included unless they are currently a MI gun free zone that I'm not aware of vs having the ability to post if they want. Can someone shed some light on this please? I find the 2 level permit system intriguing.

    http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...posed_for.html

  2. #2
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcice View Post
    I saw this posted from the NRA on Facebook. I'm curious how the state law is going to trump fed gfsz law.
    18 USC 922 [ ... ] (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm -
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
    political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcice View Post
    Is it going to be like CA's medical pot law that locals allow but the DEA steps all over ??? If someone in Michigan defends themselves and is cleared are they going to be charged on the fed level?? And as far as churches go I don't see why they are even included unless they are currently a MI gun free zone that I'm not aware of vs having the ability to post if they want. Can someone shed some light on this please? I find the 2 level permit system intriguing. http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...posed_for.html
    Intriguing, too,is how they managed to make their law even more convoluted than Wisconsin's 175.60

    Michigan Senate Introduced Bill 59

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...1-SIB-0059.pdf

    "Church" occurs first on page 47/57 line 13
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 03-22-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcice View Post
    I'm curious how the state law is going to trump fed gfsz law. Is it going to be like CA's medical pot law that locals allow but the DEA steps all over ???...
    The DEA is an income generating organization and profits by busting CA dispensaries and that is why they raid these dispensaries.
    There is simply no motivation for any Federal organization to enforce the Federal GFSZ Code. There is no need to "trump" it.
    The Fed Code regarding a GFSZ is irrelevant for the most part as there is little to no chance that it will be enforced in MI as it is essentially ignored nation-wide.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    18 USC 922 [ ... ] (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm -
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
    political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; ...Intriguing, too,is how they managed to make their law even more convoluted than Wisconsin's 175.60

    Michigan Senate Introduced Bill 59

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...1-SIB-0059.pdf

    "Church" occurs first on page 47/57 line 13
    WOW they specifically list where you cannot carry with exceptions that cannot be misunderstood(example section (a))... Kind of refreshing.

    BOLD is mine

    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed
    9 under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
    10 licensure under section 12a(1)(f) 12A(1)(H), shall not carry a
    11 concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    12 (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal
    13 guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying
    14 a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or
    15 she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the
    16 child from the school.
    As used in this section, "school" and
    17 "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of
    18 the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    19 (b) A public or private child care center or day care center,
    20 public or private child caring institution, or public or private
    21 child placing agency.

    22 (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    23 (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control
    24 code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the
    25 primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic
    26 liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision
    27 does not apply to an owner or employee of the business.

    13 (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church,
    14 synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the
    15 presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque,
    16 temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed
    17 pistol on that property or facility.

    18 (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500
    19 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a
    20 seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign
    21 above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch
    22 high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    23 (g) A hospital.

    24 (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college,
    25 or university.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    The DEA is an income generating organization and profits by busting CA dispensaries and that is why they raid these dispensaries.
    There is simply no motivation for any Federal organization to enforce the Federal GFSZ Code. There is no need to "trump" it.
    The Fed Code regarding a GFSZ is irrelevant for the most part as there is little to no chance that it will be enforced in MI as it is essentially ignored nation-wide.
    They don't have a reason now but the first time a teacher defends their student(s) it will make news and the fed will be forced to enforce their law(I would think). Imagine if that happened this year before the main election. Gun control would be up there as an even bigger "hot topic". Not to mention the anti's crucifying the teacher for shooting a kid with "issues". I can see the wave(pun intended) of blame hitting the carry community as well as video games, music and basically everything but the kid/parents as usual. Course the teacher hypothetical won't take place if the school won't allow teachers to carry but i digress. IF the law goes through and a parent "helper" with a level 2 permit is put in the situation I see the same scenario playing out.

    I really hate playing out hypothetical scenarios because of all the different possibilities. The previous were but 2 of many I hope never happen but some variation most likely will..
    Last edited by Sorcice; 03-22-2012 at 08:18 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houghton County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    808
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcice View Post
    WOW they specifically list where you cannot carry with exceptions that cannot be misunderstood(example section (a))... Kind of refreshing.

    BOLD is mine
    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to
    subsection (4), an individual licensed
    9 under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
    10 licensure under section 12a(1)(f) 12A(1)(H), shall not carry a
    11 concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    12 (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal
    13 guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying
    14 a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or
    15 she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the
    16 child from the school.
    As used in this section, "school" and
    17 "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of
    18 the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    19 (b) A public or private child care center or day care center,
    20 public or private child caring institution, or public or private
    21 child placing agency.

    22 (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    23 (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control
    24 code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the
    25 primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic
    26 liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision
    27 does not apply to an owner or employee of the business.

    13 (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church,
    14 synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the
    15 presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque,
    16 temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed
    17 pistol on that property or facility.

    18 (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500
    19 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a
    20 seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign
    21 above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch
    22 high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    23 (g) A hospital.

    24 (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college,
    25 or university.
    Ok, it's not quite that simple....

    One part of our law is as follows:

    "750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both."


    So under this law we can't carry in those areas listed, unless we have a CPL. Then, there's the CPL law which Sorcice posted which states:

    "Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
    licensure under section 12a(1)(f) 12A(1)(H), shall not carry a CONCEALED pistol on the premises of any of the following:"


    So, the law regarding FIREARMS states we can't carry in those areas unless we have a CPL
    The CPL law states we can't carry a CONCEALED pistol in those areas
    That allows people who have their CPL to OPEN carry in those areas. The Attorney General and Michigan State Police have given opinions confirming it.
    Rand Paul 2016

  7. #7
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houghton County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    808
    I should have added, what I posted above is law now. SB59 offers the ability to take 1 more day of training so a person can carry a concealed weapon in the zones where it is currently prohibited.
    Rand Paul 2016

  8. #8
    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    I should have added, what I posted above is law now. SB59 offers the ability to take 1 more day of training so a person can carry a concealed weapon in the zones where it is currently prohibited.
    Thanks for clarifying Yooper . I'm still in awe over the detail they put fourth though. No guessing/test cases needed.
    Last edited by Sorcice; 03-22-2012 at 10:07 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •