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Michigan Possibly getting to carry in school zones ????

Sorcice

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
381
Location
Madison, WI
I saw this posted from the NRA on Facebook. I'm curious how the state law is going to trump fed gfsz law. Is it going to be like CA's medical pot law that locals allow but the DEA steps all over ??? If someone in Michigan defends themselves and is cleared are they going to be charged on the fed level?? And as far as churches go I don't see why they are even included unless they are currently a MI gun free zone that I'm not aware of vs having the ability to post if they want. Can someone shed some light on this please? I find the 2 level permit system intriguing.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/sweeping_changes_proposed_for.html
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
I saw this posted from the NRA on Facebook. I'm curious how the state law is going to trump fed gfsz law.
18 USC 922 [ ... ] (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; ...
Is it going to be like CA's medical pot law that locals allow but the DEA steps all over ??? If someone in Michigan defends themselves and is cleared are they going to be charged on the fed level?? And as far as churches go I don't see why they are even included unless they are currently a MI gun free zone that I'm not aware of vs having the ability to post if they want. Can someone shed some light on this please? I find the 2 level permit system intriguing. http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/sweeping_changes_proposed_for.html
Intriguing, too,is how they managed to make their law even more convoluted than Wisconsin's §175.60

Michigan Senate Introduced Bill 59

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billintroduced/Senate/pdf/2011-SIB-0059.pdf

"Church" occurs first on page 47/57 line 13
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
I'm curious how the state law is going to trump fed gfsz law. Is it going to be like CA's medical pot law that locals allow but the DEA steps all over ???...
The DEA is an income generating organization and profits by busting CA dispensaries and that is why they raid these dispensaries.
There is simply no motivation for any Federal organization to enforce the Federal GFSZ Code. There is no need to "trump" it.
The Fed Code regarding a GFSZ is irrelevant for the most part as there is little to no chance that it will be enforced in MI as it is essentially ignored nation-wide.
 

Sorcice

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
381
Location
Madison, WI
18 USC 922 [ ... ] (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; ...Intriguing, too,is how they managed to make their law even more convoluted than Wisconsin's §175.60

Michigan Senate Introduced Bill 59

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billintroduced/Senate/pdf/2011-SIB-0059.pdf

"Church" occurs first on page 47/57 line 13

WOW they specifically list where you cannot carry with exceptions that cannot be misunderstood(example section (a))... Kind of refreshing.

BOLD is mine

Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed
9 under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
10 licensure under section 12a(1)(f) 12A(1)(H), shall not carry a
11 concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

12 (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal
13 guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying
14 a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or
15 she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the
16 child from the school.
As used in this section, "school" and
17 "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of
18 the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

19 (b) A public or private child care center or day care center,
20 public or private child caring institution, or public or private
21 child placing agency.

22 (c) A sports arena or stadium.

23 (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control
24 code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the
25 primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic
26 liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision
27 does not apply to an owner or employee of the business.

13 (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church,
14 synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the
15 presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque,
16 temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed
17 pistol on that property or facility.

18 (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500
19 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a
20 seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign
21 above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch
22 high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

23 (g) A hospital.

24 (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college,
25 or university.
 

Sorcice

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
381
Location
Madison, WI
The DEA is an income generating organization and profits by busting CA dispensaries and that is why they raid these dispensaries.
There is simply no motivation for any Federal organization to enforce the Federal GFSZ Code. There is no need to "trump" it.
The Fed Code regarding a GFSZ is irrelevant for the most part as there is little to no chance that it will be enforced in MI as it is essentially ignored nation-wide.

They don't have a reason now but the first time a teacher defends their student(s) it will make news and the fed will be forced to enforce their law(I would think). Imagine if that happened this year before the main election. Gun control would be up there as an even bigger "hot topic". Not to mention the anti's crucifying the teacher for shooting a kid with "issues". I can see the wave(pun intended) of blame hitting the carry community as well as video games, music and basically everything but the kid/parents as usual. Course the teacher hypothetical won't take place if the school won't allow teachers to carry but i digress. IF the law goes through and a parent "helper" with a level 2 permit is put in the situation I see the same scenario playing out.

I really hate playing out hypothetical scenarios because of all the different possibilities. The previous were but 2 of many I hope never happen but some variation most likely will..
 
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Yooper

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
800
Location
Houghton County, Michigan, USA
WOW they specifically list where you cannot carry with exceptions that cannot be misunderstood(example section (a))... Kind of refreshing.

BOLD is mine
Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to
subsection (4), an individual licensed
9 under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
10 licensure under section 12a(1)(f) 12A(1)(H), shall not carry a
11 concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

12 (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal
13 guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying
14 a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or
15 she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the
16 child from the school.
As used in this section, "school" and
17 "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of
18 the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

19 (b) A public or private child care center or day care center,
20 public or private child caring institution, or public or private
21 child placing agency.

22 (c) A sports arena or stadium.

23 (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control
24 code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the
25 primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic
26 liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision
27 does not apply to an owner or employee of the business.

13 (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church,
14 synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the
15 presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque,
16 temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed
17 pistol on that property or facility.

18 (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500
19 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a
20 seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign
21 above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch
22 high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

23 (g) A hospital.

24 (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college,
25 or university.

Ok, it's not quite that simple....

One part of our law is as follows:

"750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both."


So under this law we can't carry in those areas listed, unless we have a CPL. Then, there's the CPL law which Sorcice posted which states:

"Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
licensure under section 12a(1)(f) 12A(1)(H), shall not carry a CONCEALED pistol on the premises of any of the following:"


So, the law regarding FIREARMS states we can't carry in those areas unless we have a CPL
The CPL law states we can't carry a CONCEALED pistol in those areas
That allows people who have their CPL to OPEN carry in those areas. The Attorney General and Michigan State Police have given opinions confirming it.
 

Yooper

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
800
Location
Houghton County, Michigan, USA
I should have added, what I posted above is law now. SB59 offers the ability to take 1 more day of training so a person can carry a concealed weapon in the zones where it is currently prohibited.
 

Sorcice

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
381
Location
Madison, WI
I should have added, what I posted above is law now. SB59 offers the ability to take 1 more day of training so a person can carry a concealed weapon in the zones where it is currently prohibited.

Thanks for clarifying Yooper :). I'm still in awe over the detail they put fourth though. No guessing/test cases needed.
 
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