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Thread: Church Carry with no CCW

  1. #1
    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    Church Carry with no CCW

    Previously I had thought that, with permission, you could OC in a church. However, I'm under the suspicion that this only applies if you have a CCW.


    RSMO 571-107 "571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:"

    (14) "Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;"


    This means with the consent of said persons you can carry in church. However it is important to note that this only applies to CCW holders, as the beginning of the section stated.

    So, this entire section apparently does not apply to me as an 18yo with no CCW.

    Now on to the part that I'm wondering about.


    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (8) "Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof;"

    Does this mean that even though I have the express permission of the minister, deacons, and church board, I still can't legally open carry? Wouldn't that be infringing on the rights of private property owners? Please clear this up for me. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
    Previously I had thought that, with permission, you could OC in a church. However, I'm under the suspicion that this only applies if you have a CCW.


    RSMO 571-107 "571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:"

    (14) "Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;"


    This means with the consent of said persons you can carry in church. However it is important to note that this only applies to CCW holders, as the beginning of the section stated.

    So, this entire section apparently does not apply to me as an 18yo with no CCW.

    Now on to the part that I'm wondering about.


    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (8) "Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof;"

    Does this mean that even though I have the express permission of the minister, deacons, and church board, I still can't legally open carry? Wouldn't that be infringing on the rights of private property owners? Please clear this up for me. Thanks!
    IANAL....so, my $.02 is maybe. If the property owner has provided you with permission; my initial gut response is it is ok. However, since it is specifically stated in the statutes, I would tend to be hesitant. If you really want a legal answer...hire an attorney to give you an official opinion.

    If you don't care to spend the money on an attorney and still want to carry on the church premises; get the permission in writing. I would ask the leaders giving you permission what would they do if a member of the congregation complains and calls the sheriff/police on you?

    Good Luck!
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

  3. #3
    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    IANAL....so, my $.02 is maybe. If the property owner has provided you with permission; my initial gut response is it is ok. However, since it is specifically stated in the statutes, I would tend to be hesitant. If you really want a legal answer...hire an attorney to give you an official opinion.

    If you don't care to spend the money on an attorney and still want to carry on the church premises; get the permission in writing. I would ask the leaders giving you permission what would they do if a member of the congregation complains and calls the sheriff/police on you?

    Good Luck!
    Thanks for the advice!

    I also might mention it's a small church, and just about every person there knows me. If people see me, they already think "gun", and when they see guns, they think of me. haha.

  4. #4
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
    Previously I had thought that, with permission, you could OC in a church. However, I'm under the suspicion that this only applies if you have a CCW.


    RSMO 571-107 "571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:"

    (14) "Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;"


    This means with the consent of said persons you can carry in church. However it is important to note that this only applies to CCW holders, as the beginning of the section stated.

    So, this entire section apparently does not apply to me as an 18yo with no CCW.

    Now on to the part that I'm wondering about.


    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (8) "Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof;"

    Does this mean that even though I have the express permission of the minister, deacons, and church board, I still can't legally open carry? Wouldn't that be infringing on the rights of private property owners? Please clear this up for me. Thanks!
    You need to disregard 571.107 temporarily and focus on 571.030.1.(8) and 571.030.4 & 5, first and foremost. 571.030.1.(8) clearly states:

    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
    .
    .
    .
    (8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or
    So under state law, it is UNLAWFUL (a Class B Misdemeanor) to carry a firearm into any church. Period. The only exemptions codified into our statutes to RSMO 571.030.1.(8) are found in RSMO 571.030.4:

    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.
    And in RSMO 571.030.5:

    5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031.
    So under state law, NO exception is made to persons who do not possess a valid CCW endorsement issue by Missouri or some other state, or persons who are not engaged in a lawful act of defense. In other words, the State has NOT allowed a statutory exception for people who "have written permission" from the church. You could be charged and prosecuted if you carry into the church, even if you have written permission, and it would be up to you to fight the charges in court from the angle of the church's right to regulate activities on their private property.

    Absent a valid CCW endorsement, 571.107.1.(14) is entirely irrelevant as it only applies to people who hold a valid endorsement.

    Your best option would be to obtain a non-resident CCW permit from Maine. This would provide you with an exemption to RSMO 571.030.1.(8) and bring 571.107.1.(4) back into play for you. With the Maine permit, and the permission from the church, you would be 100% good to go.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    wow thanks so much! I'm constantly on and off about whether to get a Maine CCW or not. Looks like I'm leaning in favor of it for today.

  6. #6
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
    wow thanks so much! I'm constantly on and off about whether to get a Maine CCW or not. Looks like I'm leaning in favor of it for today.
    Many do get the Maine permit, seems like a good way to go.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  7. #7
    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    I'd really rather not get a CCW since so many extra laws apply to you. But at this point so many options are opened up by it (carry in my hometown (they require CCW to OC or CC) and church being the most important). Not to mention being able to store firearm in a vehicle.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
    I'd really rather not get a CCW since so many extra laws apply to you. But at this point so many options are opened up by it (carry in my hometown (they require CCW to OC or CC) and church being the most important). Not to mention being able to store firearm in a vehicle.
    I feel like it lifts several burdens, as opposed to adding new ones. For example, with permission I can carry in many of the places that the state has not authorized me to carry. And further with the exception of federal facilities, and public transportation buses, there are essentially no places I can't visit. If someone does discover that I am carrying in a location that I did not get permission for, they will ask me to leave. It's not a crime to carry in those locations when I have my endorsement.

    So yes, there is the hassle of keeping up with my expiration date, keeping my endorsement with me when I carry, and knowing a few bits of information, but the burden that it lifts from me by exempting me from several criminal infractions is well worth it. Since you would be carrying on a Maine permit, federal law would still restrict you from carrying at an elementary or secondary education institution, but 99% of the state restrictions would go away.

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