Church Carry with no CCW

Boba Fett · Mar 22, 2012

Previously I had thought that, with permission, you could OC in a church. However, I'm under the suspicion that this only applies if you have a CCW.

RSMO 571-107 "571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:"

(14) "Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;"

This means with the consent of said persons you can carry in church. However it is important to note that this only applies to CCW holders, as the beginning of the section stated.

So, this entire section apparently does not apply to me as an 18yo with no CCW.

Now on to the part that I'm wondering about.

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(8) "Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof;"

Does this mean that even though I have the express permission of the minister, deacons, and church board, I still can't legally open carry? Wouldn't that be infringing on the rights of private property owners? Please clear this up for me. Thanks!

Redbaron007 · Mar 23, 2012

Boba Fett said:
Previously I had thought that, with permission, you could OC in a church. However, I'm under the suspicion that this only applies if you have a CCW.

RSMO 571-107 "571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:"

(14) "Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;"

This means with the consent of said persons you can carry in church. However it is important to note that this only applies to CCW holders, as the beginning of the section stated.

So, this entire section apparently does not apply to me as an 18yo with no CCW.

Now on to the part that I'm wondering about.

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(8) "Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof;"

Does this mean that even though I have the express permission of the minister, deacons, and church board, I still can't legally open carry? Wouldn't that be infringing on the rights of private property owners? Please clear this up for me. Thanks!

IANAL....so, my $.02 is maybe. If the property owner has provided you with permission; my initial gut response is it is ok. However, since it is specifically stated in the statutes, I would tend to be hesitant. If you really want a legal answer...hire an attorney to give you an official opinion.

If you don't care to spend the money on an attorney and still want to carry on the church premises; get the permission in writing. I would ask the leaders giving you permission what would they do if a member of the congregation complains and calls the sheriff/police on you?

Good Luck!

Boba Fett · Mar 23, 2012

Redbaron007 said:
IANAL....so, my $.02 is maybe. If the property owner has provided you with permission; my initial gut response is it is ok. However, since it is specifically stated in the statutes, I would tend to be hesitant. If you really want a legal answer...hire an attorney to give you an official opinion.

If you don't care to spend the money on an attorney and still want to carry on the church premises; get the permission in writing. I would ask the leaders giving you permission what would they do if a member of the congregation complains and calls the sheriff/police on you?

Good Luck!

Thanks for the advice!

I also might mention it's a small church, and just about every person there knows me. If people see me, they already think "gun", and when they see guns, they think of me. haha.

cshoff · Mar 25, 2012

Boba Fett said:
Previously I had thought that, with permission, you could OC in a church. However, I'm under the suspicion that this only applies if you have a CCW.

RSMO 571-107 "571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:"

(14) "Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;"

This means with the consent of said persons you can carry in church. However it is important to note that this only applies to CCW holders, as the beginning of the section stated.

So, this entire section apparently does not apply to me as an 18yo with no CCW.

Now on to the part that I'm wondering about.

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(8) "Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof;"

Does this mean that even though I have the express permission of the minister, deacons, and church board, I still can't legally open carry? Wouldn't that be infringing on the rights of private property owners? Please clear this up for me. Thanks!

You need to disregard 571.107 temporarily and focus on 571.030.1.(8) and 571.030.4 & 5, first and foremost. 571.030.1.(8) clearly states:

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
.
.
.
(8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or

So under state law, it is UNLAWFUL (a Class B Misdemeanor) to carry a firearm into any church. Period. The only exemptions codified into our statutes to RSMO 571.030.1.(8) are found in RSMO 571.030.4:

4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

And in RSMO 571.030.5:

5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031.

So under state law, NO exception is made to persons who do not possess a valid CCW endorsement issue by Missouri or some other state, or persons who are not engaged in a lawful act of defense. In other words, the State has NOT allowed a statutory exception for people who "have written permission" from the church. You could be charged and prosecuted if you carry into the church, even if you have written permission, and it would be up to you to fight the charges in court from the angle of the church's right to regulate activities on their private property.

Absent a valid CCW endorsement, 571.107.1.(14) is entirely irrelevant as it only applies to people who hold a valid endorsement.

Your best option would be to obtain a non-resident CCW permit from Maine. This would provide you with an exemption to RSMO 571.030.1.(8) and bring 571.107.1.(4) back into play for you. With the Maine permit, and the permission from the church, you would be 100% good to go.

Boba Fett · Mar 25, 2012

wow thanks so much! I'm constantly on and off about whether to get a Maine CCW or not. Looks like I'm leaning in favor of it for today.

mspgunner · Mar 26, 2012

Boba Fett said:
wow thanks so much! I'm constantly on and off about whether to get a Maine CCW or not. Looks like I'm leaning in favor of it for today.

Many do get the Maine permit, seems like a good way to go.

Boba Fett · Mar 27, 2012

I'd really rather not get a CCW since so many extra laws apply to you. But at this point so many options are opened up by it (carry in my hometown (they require CCW to OC or CC) and church being the most important). Not to mention being able to store firearm in a vehicle.

Shooter64738 · Apr 2, 2012

Boba Fett said:
I'd really rather not get a CCW since so many extra laws apply to you. But at this point so many options are opened up by it (carry in my hometown (they require CCW to OC or CC) and church being the most important). Not to mention being able to store firearm in a vehicle.

I feel like it lifts several burdens, as opposed to adding new ones. For example, with permission I can carry in many of the places that the state has not authorized me to carry. And further with the exception of federal facilities, and public transportation buses, there are essentially no places I can't visit. If someone does discover that I am carrying in a location that I did not get permission for, they will ask me to leave. It's not a crime to carry in those locations when I have my endorsement.

So yes, there is the hassle of keeping up with my expiration date, keeping my endorsement with me when I carry, and knowing a few bits of information, but the burden that it lifts from me by exempting me from several criminal infractions is well worth it. Since you would be carrying on a Maine permit, federal law would still restrict you from carrying at an elementary or secondary education institution, but 99% of the state restrictions would go away.

Church Carry with no CCW

Boba Fett

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Redbaron007

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Boba Fett

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cshoff

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Boba Fett

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mspgunner

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Boba Fett

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Shooter64738

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