WAC Show Puyallup 3/24 - 3/25

gogodawgs · Mar 27, 2012

Trigger Dr said:
It has been offered several times to various OCDO members, come to the show 1 time on our dollar and watch what happens. After walking around, standing off to the side and watching the way firearms are handled your perspective will change raapidly. The general membership of WAC are pro 2 A. The ones to worry about are the average Joe off the street, the "questionable" show goers wearing their do rags, gangsta looking clothing, and obvious lack of firearms knowledge.
Sure there are some great deals to be found, there are also prices that are higher than they should be.
The entire things boils down to

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY IT IS RUN, DON'T GO!

Correct, Trigger, I personally have offered up my own money on several occasions, including an offer to fill one members gas tank as well for the trip. Yet no one has taken me up on this offer. I don't fault anyone one for not wanting to join, but I will fault them for taking shots at the organization and never having attended. I am willing to be open minded about WAC or any other group.

Vitaeus · Mar 27, 2012

So why not require anyone wishing to unholster go to a clearing barrel and be supervised. If you "whip it out" elsewhere you get the boot? There safety and support for the 2nd amendment. Personally I am in the naysayer camp, I try to not support companies/organizations/etc. that limit our "rights".

SpyderTattoo · Mar 27, 2012

sudden valley gunner said:
I understand the reason for it, I don't agree with it. I don't fault people who want to go. Just like some of us still conceal at places that are "anti gun".

The argument that those of us who will refuse to go are some how stupid and ignorant and the real funny one "hypocritical" is faulty reasoning in my viewpoint. We simply take different stance on the matter.

The hypocracy comes when you want everyone to respect your rights ( to carry ), but you arent willing to extend the same respect to the rights of private property holders.

Jim675 · Mar 27, 2012

WACers calling show-abstainers hypocrites?

Is this because those that favor the WAC have never urged another private business to allow carry?
Or because all gun-related businesses (Cabela's?) follow similar sensible restrictions by prohibiting loaded carry , or even UOC by their customers?

If you don't believe the general public (gangsta! do rags!) measures up to the good people you associate with then why do we lobby for wider acceptance of OC? Why not say that reasonable restrictions should be implemented? You know, like - let the sheriff decide who's clean cut enough to carry?

This is the very definition of hypocrisy. Stop punishing everyone for what an unidentified few might do. When someone actually does something wrong - then punish them. Isn't that the entire point behind having rights, the point of this web site?

LkWd_Don · Mar 27, 2012

waterfowl woody said:
I hard to believe that was said on this site by a member. I can't believe that some of the most active members on this site that fight for the right to open carry anywhere are ok with WAC. well since it for safety........what really!!!!!!! Oh no here comes the angry response or verbal lashing for me believing that NOBODY should take my rights away.

Everyone that fights for WAC on this site needs to unholster there weapon, unload it, and insert a zip tie. Now go through your day with this.
Hey it's not about stripping your 2A rights, IT'S ABOUT SAFETY!

I have talked to many people about this and at least 40 have band going to the WAC shows. I believe WAC should have a responsibility to uphold gun owners rights as gun owners are the customers.

Ask yourself this
Would you eat at a resturant that doesn't allow you to carry?
Would you shop at a store that is against your right to protect yourself?
Would you purchase a gun from a gun store that is affraid of people legaly carrying guns?

Sorry but I don't buy the smoke screen "It's about safety" and in fact it is about stripping your 2A rights. Astonishing how certain people fight for the right to carry and yet they surrender there rights to a group because its about safety.

Thank you for bringing logic to this discussion.
I am a bit on the emotional side after wasting my time and gas to get to Puyallup just to find that because I am not a Member of WAC, I would not be allowed to carry. As I inferred before, I am glad I did not waste more by actually going further.
At best, their failure to openly disclose at all sites their function was being advertised at (to include the NRA site where I had see it), that no weapons would be permitted in by Non-Members/Non-registered Sellers is disrespectful to the customer base they are trying to attract.

LkWd_Don · Mar 27, 2012

Trigger Dr said:
That is good. I don't think you would be welcome there, at least not by me.
And that goes for all the other nay sayers as well.

Confirmation that not only did I waste my time this last weekend attempting to enjoy a gun show, but as far as the WAC is concerned, it seems that I also wasted 20 years of my life serving honorably in the Army in an attempt to maintain freedom from the very type of despotism that WAC is proving they stand for!
I can also understand that you do not know me and are not aware of my time spent in Weapons handling, Weapons Certification Classes and proper UOF training in more than two States to work as Armed Private Security, but that does not forgive you for your closed-minded disparagement.

massivedesign · Mar 27, 2012

LkWd_Don said:
I also wasted 20 years of my life serving honorably in the Army in an attempt to maintain freedom from the very type of despotism that WAC is proving they stand for!

First and foremost, thanks for your service. But are you really saying that you swore to destroy private property rules and peoples personal choices? On your property, YOU set the rules, WAC is no different. Personally, I don't want some random guy carrying on my property. WAC is no different.

You guys going off that WAC is anti- 2nd amendment is like saying a store with a no shirts=no business sign is anti 1st.

gogodawgs · Mar 27, 2012

LkWd_Don said:
Thank you for bringing logic to this discussion.
I am a bit on the emotional side after wasting my time and gas to get to Puyallup just to find that because I am not a Member of WAC, I would not be allowed to carry. As I inferred before, I am glad I did not waste more by actually going further.
At best, their failure to openly disclose at all sites their function was being advertised at (to include the NRA site where I had see it), that no weapons would be permitted in by Non-Members/Non-registered Sellers is disrespectful to the customer base they are trying to attract.

Front page of their website it is clearly spelled out.

Only members can buy and sell guns at our shows. Only members may carry firearms into the venue.

WAC

LkWd_Don · Mar 27, 2012

massivedesign said:
First and foremost, thanks for your service. But are you really saying that you swore to destroy private property rules and peoples personal choices? On your property, YOU set the rules, WAC is no different. Personally, I don't want some random guy carrying on my property. WAC is no different.

You guys going off that WAC is anti- 2nd amendment is like saying a store with a no shirts=no business sign is anti 1st.

I am going to ask that you back up and back off the "Untruthful" statements! Since it appears that I must now revert to being an Educator, please follow along.

First off. The Puyallup Fairgrounds is State Owned Property! Being a Resident in the State of Washington, I own that just as much as you do.

Now, what are the laws in the State of Washington involving Carry of a Firearm? First I will start with our Washington State Constitution. http://www.leg.wa.gov/LawsAndAgencyRules/Pages/constitution.aspx Please pay attention to Article 1 Section 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
Effect of your refusal to allow me to carry in your functions that are basically open to the public You impaired my Rights!
Now let's look at the limitations the State of Washington applies to my carry. Found at http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41 and specifically 9.41.050 States that I shall not carry concealed without a permit having been properly issued and even if I did not get that concealed pistol permit as long as I am not excluded from legally carrying a firearm it would only be a misdemeanor offense.
The area's specified by Washington State Law (RCW) that are listed as restricted from legal carry are contained in RCW 9.41.300 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300 and they are:
* jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness,
* areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings.
* restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment.
* That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age
* restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration,

Now, drop YOUR failure to be truthful and try your post again!

LkWd_Don · Mar 27, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Front page of their website it is clearly spelled out.

WAC

Ok, thank you for posting that link!
Now, please stick to the comment I made. What about all the other places that WAC advertised their event, to include the NRA Website? Which is where I had learned of the show.
Considering that you set what I had said in bold for your response to me, you can not tell me that you missed my saying so.

massivedesign · Mar 27, 2012

LkWd_Don said:
I am going to ask that you back up and back off the "Untruthful" statements! Since it appears that I must now revert to being an Educator, please follow along.

First off. The Puyallup Fairgrounds is State Owned Property! Being a Resident in the State of Washington, I own that just as much as you do.

Sigh..... http://www.thefair.com/utility/about-us/board_management.php

The Western Washington Fair Association, also known as the Puyallup Fair, is a private, not-for-profit, 501-C3 corporation. It receives no government subsidy, and pays city and state taxes. Any proceeds are invested back into the Fair for improvements.

The State owns the GROUNDS, but leases it to the WWFA who owns the buildings, fences etc. Just like Safeco, Century Link, etc etc.... I.E. You have no rights.

tombrewster421 · Mar 27, 2012

LkWd_Don said:
I am going to ask that you back up and back off the "Untruthful" statements! Since it appears that I must now revert to being an Educator, please follow along.

First off. The Puyallup Fairgrounds is State Owned Property! Being a Resident in the State of Washington, I own that just as much as you do.

Now, what are the laws in the State of Washington involving Carry of a Firearm? First I will start with our Washington State Constitution. http://www.leg.wa.gov/LawsAndAgencyRules/Pages/constitution.aspx Please pay attention to Article 1 Section 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
Effect of your refusal to allow me to carry in your functions that are basically open to the public You impaired my Rights!
Now let's look at the limitations the State of Washington applies to my carry. Found at http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41 and specifically 9.41.050 States that I shall not carry concealed without a permit having been properly issued and even if I did not get that concealed pistol permit as long as I am not excluded from legally carrying a firearm it would only be a misdemeanor offense.
The area's specified by Washington State Law (RCW) that are listed as restricted from legal carry are contained in RCW 9.41.300 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300 and they are:
* jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness,
* areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings.
* restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment.
* That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age
* restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration,

Now, drop YOUR failure to be truthful and try your post again!

The Puyallup fair is not state owned property! It's the largest privately owned fair in WA. Look it up before you spout off next time! WAC isn't even setting the rules here. The privately owned and operated fairgrounds are.

BigDave · Mar 27, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Correct, Trigger, I personally have offered up my own money on several occasions, including an offer to fill one members gas tank as well for the trip. Yet no one has taken me up on this offer. I don't fault anyone one for not wanting to join, but I will fault them for taking shots at the organization and never having attended. I am willing to be open minded about WAC or any other group.

No doubt you have offered some members a tank of gas to come over as you did with me for the meet last summer but I did not take up the offer as it was not needed but appreciated.

As to never attending a WAC Gun Show, I cannot speak for others but I have in Puyallup 4 different times through the years I lived in Puget Sound and personally I did not find a good deal on items offered there, most were over priced to one item I remember looking at was a used XD that I could just drop by the Marksman and get the same thing brand new for the same price.

As to views on the forum, everyone in the forum carries the same weight to express their views but yet those who strive to make achievements for open carry are so willing to silence others in their views.
I have in the past engaged in beating my head against the wall to get my view across and as of late, state what you want to say and move along and not get tied up the constant bickering that goes on here with misinterpretation or pick and poke something apart to have it mean something else then the OP stated.

We have those strongly support idealism on the forum for any type of violation or indication of a violation of the constitution and yet accept less from WAC.

gogodawgs · Mar 27, 2012

tombrewster421 said:
The Puyallup fair is not state owned property! It's the largest privately owned fair in WA. Look it up before you spout off next time! WAC isn't even setting the rules here. The privately owned and operated fairgrounds are.

Tom, I disagree, WAC is setting the rules. And they are rules for safety. With over 900 tables and 5000-10000 attendees at the show with varying degrees of firearms knowledge, WAC has decided to take the route of no loaded firearms. I respect that decision after having attended multiple shows and watching the general public's handling of firearms. Remember, the purpose of a gun show is to handle firearms for sale and trade. This is dynamically different from any other business, park, etc where handling firearms is not part of attendance.

SpyderTattoo · Mar 27, 2012

You are mistaken. The Puyallup fairgrounds is not publiclally owned it is private property.

http://www.thefair.com/utility/about-us/board_management.php

(directed toward LkWd_Don)

Jim675 · Mar 27, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Tom, I disagree, WAC is setting the rules. And they are rules for safety. With over 900 tables and 5000-10000 attendees at the show with varying degrees of firearms knowledge, WAC has decided to take the route of no loaded firearms. I respect that decision after having attended multiple shows and watching the general public's handling of firearms. Remember, the purpose of a gun show is to handle firearms for sale and trade. This is dynamically different from any other business, park, etc where handling firearms is not part of attendance.

You mean like Cabela's, Sportsmen's, etc.? Do you think Cabela's doesn't get thousands of customers handling firearms? What is the magic number of people before we need to cut off possession of guns so someone won't get hurt? 4999? 5001? 4?

WalMart's gun counter certainly gets hundreds each day, so it must be a bigger number than that, right? Because if a greeter flubs and tells someone to leave their gun outside then some of the WAC supporters in this thread will join in supporting the carrier.

Perhaps its a concentration issue. Each gun show is only two days per month per site. Where Cabela's might be busy every day so the danger is more diluted throughout the month.

Bottom line: WAC's can and does set whatever policy they want. Everyone may attend or not as they wish. Pretending WAC is not hypocritical is just silly. If there was anything there that interested me I might go again, but I wouldn't pretend the policy of disarming for safety isn't directly against my values and the message this site has publicly preached for years.

LkWd_Don · Mar 27, 2012

massivedesign said:
Sigh..... http://www.thefair.com/utility/about-us/board_management.php

The State owns the GROUNDS, but leases it to the WWFA who owns the buildings, fences etc. Just like Safeco, Century Link, etc etc.... I.E. You have no rights.

If that is truly the case, I apologize for my thinking the Fairgrounds are owned & operated by the State. And with the post by SpyderTattoo further down both insisting that WAC was simply abiding by the rules they had to agree to and were applying accordingly to their customers, that now gives me something more to consider.
Meaning, as to.. "if" I ever wish to fund or refuse funding the Western Washington Fairgrounds (TheFair.com) the same way as I refuse to provide patronage to others who would infringe upon, abridge, deny or otherwise disparage my rights under either the State or Federal Constitutions.

When I can prove what has been said for myself, (most likely after contacting the management at TheFair.com), you can rest assured that I will be disseminating what information I gather, to all that I know who are of like mind-sets.

TechnoWeenie · Mar 27, 2012

WAC - Warning: Always Conceal (at our shows).

Concealed means concealed.

tombrewster421 · Mar 27, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Tom, I disagree, WAC is setting the rules. And they are rules for safety. With over 900 tables and 5000-10000 attendees at the show with varying degrees of firearms knowledge, WAC has decided to take the route of no loaded firearms. I respect that decision after having attended multiple shows and watching the general public's handling of firearms. Remember, the purpose of a gun show is to handle firearms for sale and trade. This is dynamically different from any other business, park, etc where handling firearms is not part of attendance.

My point was that WAC could not even allow it if they wanted to. So what the hell is the point in arguing about it. I'm a member and I think it's a good policy just because there is NO safe direction to point a gun in that setting.

tombrewster421 · Mar 27, 2012

TechnoWeenie said:
WAC - Warning: Always Conceal (at our shows).

Concealed means concealed.

+1

Your "other gun" of course. OC the zip tied one.

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