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Thread: Connecticut Carry - The Waterbury police department has been refusing permits against

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Connecticut Carry - The Waterbury police department has been refusing permits against

    Waterbury, Connecticut, March 22, 2012:

    Connecticut Carry has received numerous complaints that the Waterbury Police Department continues to demand additional and invasive requirements before they allow their citizens to apply for a permit to carry pistols and revolvers. Further, the Waterbury Police Department refuses those applications if a citizen rightfully refuses the demand.

    The lack of legal authority for a local police department in the State of Connecticut to invent their own requirements and supplemental forms in the application process has been established in legal opinions dating back to at least 1968 in a published opinion by then Attorney General Robert Killian.

    In January, 2010, the Connecticut Board of Firearm Permit Examiners upheld this same legal opinion, extending and clarifying it, publishing it and sending it to all of the municipal police departments in the state, including the Waterbury Police Department.

    The Waterbury Police Department continues to ignore the Attorney Generalís office, the BFPE, the legislature and therefore the people of Connecticut by refusing to issue permits to people who refuse to submit to the burdens that the Waterbury Police Department has placed on the permit process while lacking any legal authority to do so.

    Connecticut Carry calls on the leadership of the Waterbury Police Department to correct these behaviors and to stop infringing on the rights of the citizens of Waterbury to bear arms.

    Connecticut Carry also calls on Mayor Neil OíLeary of Waterbury to mandate that the Waterbury Police department follow the Connecticut General Statutes. Connecticut Carry has also notified the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners and Attorney General George Jepsen in their official capacities on this issue.



    More information on this issue can be found on: http://ctcarry.com/Campaign/PermitRequirements

    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.


    Contact:
    Richard Burgess
    President
    Connecticut Carry, Inc
    Ph: 203-208-9577
    Email: rich@connecticutcarry.com
    http://ctcarry.com
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Great Job Rich...Keep up the fight...
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    Much has changed since 1968 and even 2010. I applied for my permit & did not give them any money, no prints, etc. It is a right to carry & I think that the form & issuing permit process is only voluntary so any information you give is of the same variety.

    Nice to see some case law regarding this...

    I expect to be denied the permit .... and I will carry on from there to the legal fight ahead. It will be a long fight I imagine.

  4. #4
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Nothing new here.

    Until more people send in their app, and Waterbury gets dragged over the carpet, nothing will change.

    I'll have to check my notes to see if they were present yesterday at the hearings or not.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Until more people send in their app, and Waterbury gets dragged over the carpet, nothing will change.
    Particularly if no one steps up and everyone waits for things to magically change...
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Particularly if no one steps up and everyone waits for things to magically change...
    Rich... I have a direct line to a higher up's ear. Please email what information you would like to be considered and I will personally deliver it to them.

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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSurvivor View Post
    Rich... I have a direct line to a higher up's ear. Please email what information you would like to be considered and I will personally deliver it to them.
    I don't know if Rich got back to you but the issues in Waterbury are that they are refusing to accept/process applications without extras (letters of reference in particular). The women who "accept" the application are very rude (especially one named Rose) and will not even discuss these issues with the applicant. They have actually turned their back and walked away on applicant's who have questioned the extras and refused to even acknowledge that they are still at the "window".

    One of my students even brought in the Declaratory Ruling from the Board of Firearm Permit Examiners and they would not even look at it. (I am sure they have already seen it, they just won't follow it.)
    Last edited by brk913; 03-25-2012 at 09:21 AM.
    Member:, NRA Patron Life, NSSF, CCDL, CT Carry, MRPC and Bell City
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    Well, you could either file criminal charges against the idiot refusing to accept the applications or go through all the hassle to get a judge to issue a writ of mandamus forcing them to comply with state law.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSurvivor View Post
    Rich... I have a direct line to a higher up's ear. Please email what information you would like to be considered and I will personally deliver it to them.
    Sent you all the info we have on this, all located on our site.


    For everyone else's reference:
    The Waterbury specific information is here:
    http://ctcarry.com/Campaign/PermitRe...ents_Waterbury

    General information:
    http://ctcarry.com/Permits/AdditionalRequirements

    All documents on the matter can be found here:
    http://ctcarry.com/Document?tag=8b9f...6-ea05001e4e2b
    People should feel free to spread this around as much as possible, lets put Connecticut PDs on notice that this kind of abuse is noticed, unlawful and will be fought.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Well, you could either file criminal charges against the idiot refusing to accept the applications
    How would that work when there is no penalty to the statute?

    or go through all the hassle to get a judge to issue a writ of mandamus forcing them to comply with state law.
    This is not outside of the realm of possibility (as well as a much broader deprivation of rights lawsuit). We need people to step up and get involved first. Money rules the days in the courts.

    http://ctcarry.com/Account/Donation
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Well, you could either file criminal charges against the idiot refusing to accept the applications or go through all the hassle to get a judge to issue a writ of mandamus forcing them to comply with state law.
    As Rich said, unlike Florida we do not have a penalty attached to the statute for people who are abusing their authority to delay or discourage the permit process. The problem with a Writ of Mandamus is it is still hard to enforce. I have heard of at least one person in CT who was denied, took it to appeal, won the appeal and the Chief of Police still refused to issue, I believe he got a Writ of Mandamus from the courts and yet the Chief still won't sign off, I'll see if I can find the cite for this...
    Member:, NRA Patron Life, NSSF, CCDL, CT Carry, MRPC and Bell City
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    960AM WELI - Interview

    I will be discussing this issue on the radio (960 AM WELI) tomorrow morning.

    If you are interested, you can listen live on their site (or on the radio of course):

    http://www.960weli.com
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I will be discussing this issue on the radio (960 AM WELI) tomorrow morning.

    If you are interested, you can listen live on their site (or on the radio of course):

    http://www.960weli.com
    Wow, a morning I have off for a change, what time are you on?
    Member:, NRA Patron Life, NSSF, CCDL, CT Carry, MRPC and Bell City
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    After 7am, I am scheduled for 7:10, but these things don't always happen 'on the dot'.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Well, since my little one won't let me sleep past 5AM I will have plenty of time to have a few cups o joe before you come on...good luck and thanks again for being the public spokesperson on these issues.
    Member:, NRA Patron Life, NSSF, CCDL, CT Carry, MRPC and Bell City
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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Just finished listening to Rich on the radio, GREAT JOB!!! Hopefully some Waterbury Officials were listening...
    Member:, NRA Patron Life, NSSF, CCDL, CT Carry, MRPC and Bell City
    NRA Certified Instructor, Chief Range Safety Officer - Basic Pistol, Home Firearm Safety, Metallic Cartridge/Shotgun Shell Reloading - www.ctpistolpermit.com

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    Just finished listening to Rich on the radio, GREAT JOB!!! Hopefully some Waterbury Officials were listening...
    Thank you. I hope they get the message loud and clear. We are coming after them and any other PD who doesn't want to follow state law.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    ??Instant Denial??

    If an applicant has there completed permit application refused (IE instant denial) with everything properly enclosed that the state requires, cant that citizen then file at the board firearms examiners. Iím sure if enough of these come across the boards desk given their declaratory rulings this will become an issue. Understanding the board aintí no short wait, or solution!

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Citizen View Post
    If an applicant has there completed permit application refused (IE instant denial) with everything properly enclosed that the state requires, cant that citizen then file at the board firearms examiners. Iím sure if enough of these come across the boards desk given their declaratory rulings this will become an issue. Understanding the board aintí no short wait, or solution!
    Sure. The issue that occurs is how many people in this state want to 'martyrs' for the cause and 'take one for the team' by waiting that time for an appeal and then having to go to the hearing and then still waiting for their permit?

    Waterbury has clear instruction that they shouldn't be doing this stuff anymore. Individuals should not have to stand on their own when it comes to matters this important.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    There are more and more "martyrs" all the time...... now.

    With groups like CTCarry, CCDL, www.ctpistolpermitissues.com, more people are now aware of what their rights were. Three years ago, none of this stuff existed.

    I've been helping people through the process and more are willing to stay "ummmmm, no thank you, here's the state app and my checks" and it is working in some areas.

    West Hartford is taking apps and issuing permits even when people don't submit the extra information.
    Hartford has been up in front of the board and knows they can't deny for this nonsense.

    The BFPE, for the record, has done an INCREDIBLE job on the backlog. We're at about 5-6 months now for a hearing - quicker than many towns for permits.

    That being said, there is still a TON of work to do and people indeed need to stand up for their rights. I don't see it as being a martyr, more like not being a victim.

    There is a scary trend I'm seeing developing again...... towns that don't want to waste time all day at a hearing issuing temporary permits just before the hearing date. Been a couple years since this was as big an issue, but it is creeping back up again.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Rich great job! It seems as if Vin was dodging you directly on some of the real issues. What was with neighbors story? Why bring Florida to CT talk.? He was dancing around the studio burning the clock like quaterback.

    I am all for the cause but Im sure alot of people on this forum including mysel dont protest as you directly state because of fear. Now i dont mean scarry but more of harrassment via delays or ther indirect PD tactics. If i remember correctly some of towns not complying are considered by media to be high crime. With that said the law is clear on what it requires and makes no mention of any of their requirment or conditions. Unless officers,captains,chiefs or LEO`s are held responsible for their misconduct i think we will only see an improvement on a temp basis.

    Reference NYPD stopped covering up crimes as officers were held liable and placed in jail. Temporary fix, NYPD is at it again.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IH8SPM View Post
    Rich great job! It seems as if Vin was dodging you directly on some of the real issues. What was with neighbors story? Why bring Florida to CT talk.? He was dancing around the studio burning the clock like quaterback.
    I felt he was lobbing me softballs and I was grateful to be able to get so much information out in such a short period of time. To each his own though.

    Unless officers,captains,chiefs or LEO`s are held responsible for their misconduct i think we will only see an improvement on a temp basis.
    Well that is the point of the campaign: http://ctcarry.com/Campaign/PermitRequirements

    Reference NYPD stopped covering up crimes as officers were held liable and placed in jail. Temporary fix, NYPD is at it again.
    You won't see jail time for additional permit requirements since the statutes (29-28,29-29) have no penalties. Even if HB 5245 passes, it has no penalties.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Well, you could either file criminal charges against the idiot refusing to accept the applications or go through all the hassle to get a judge to issue a writ of mandamus forcing them to comply with state law.
    Ha! When I filed mine they initially refused to accept it too ... but I talked to the chief and said "here you go" .. he said "I can't accept it" and I said then I would just mail it in and you would have to accept the application via mail. He scratched his head and said "OK, we'll deny it of course" and I said "you should grant it .. you have all the information you need"..that was 3 weeks ago ... no denial yet (but I'm sure I'll get one)

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