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Thread: Black friend defends shooter of Florida teen. Pendulum swings, like a pendulum do?

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Black friend defends shooter of Florida teen. Pendulum swings, like a pendulum do?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...82O0FE20120325
    Oliver's account differs from the withering criticism Zimmerman has sustained from demonstrators across the country who have demanded his arrest and accused him of racial bias in targeting Martin. Celebrities have taken up the cause of justice for the teen, and President Barack Obama said "all of us have to do some soul-searching" as a result of the tragedy.
    But the comments there are bigoted.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    This morning I saw TWO people on TV.

    The first one was a witness, a white lady, that seemed to be refuting Zimmerman's story. This could be true or not.

    The second one was a friend, a black guy, that said he wasn't racist. This could be a plant or not.


    Though, having black friends step up for him will make things better. I don't know why they didn't step up immediately though. Why wait all of this time? They should have said something as soon as the media did, assuming the media is lying and they aren't just plants by Zimmerman's lawyer to ease the pressure.
    Last edited by Stanley; 03-26-2012 at 08:58 AM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Could be that media wasn't giving then any attention. Doesn't really matter how much you talk if no one listens.

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    The New Black Panther Party, an African American organization taking its name from the radical group of the 1960s, has placed a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman.
    So they're going to do what when they find him? Bake him cupcakes?

    "All these people who are threatening George, what makes them any better than the person they think he is?" Oliver said. "You've got all these people wanting to lynch the man and they don't know the whole story. There are huge gaps that are being filled in and interpreted without evidence."
    Qft.

    I don't know what really happened, and I'm trying not to quarterback this one, but I do wish more people would wait for facts before forming opinions.
    One thing is for certain; whether Mr. Zimmerman is charged with a crime or not, whether he is guilty OR innocent, he will still be punished (mentally and emotionally) by people's anger and hatred toward him.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    I hope the "New" BP party doesn't get him.

    They'll murder him for sure. No good will come of that.

    Even if he is guilty as hell, revenge doesn't equal justice.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ....revenge doesn't equal justice....hmmm....Reginald Denny comes to mind.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ....revenge doesn't equal justice....hmmm....Reginald Denny comes to mind.
    That wasn't even proper revenge. What did Reginald Denny do other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time and happen to be white???
    Last edited by Stanley; 03-26-2012 at 10:37 AM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    That wasn't even proper revenge. What did Reginald Denny do other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time and happen to be white???
    I'm pretty sure that's the point.

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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    ...What did Trayvon Martin do other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time and happen to be black???
    That pendulum swings both ways though...

    One could argue that Martin attacking his follower was about as dumb as Denny being in the middle of a race riot but blaming the victim isn't the thing to do eh?
    Last edited by Stanley; 03-26-2012 at 11:01 AM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    This morning I saw TWO people on TV.

    The first one was a witness, a white lady, that seemed to be refuting Zimmerman's story. This could be true or not.

    The second one was a friend, a black guy, that said he wasn't racist. This could be a plant or not.


    Though, having black friends step up for him will make things better. I don't know why they didn't step up immediately though. Why wait all of this time? They should have said something as soon as the media did, assuming the media is lying and they aren't just plants by Zimmerman's lawyer to ease the pressure.
    I consider absolutely nothing to be beneath the media and lawyers. If there is no story, the media will create one, and if his client has killed and eaten young, black children, an attorney will attempt to spin it into a "mercy killing by a starving man". The only living person that knows "the truth" of this matter is Zimmerman himself, and his survival instincts will dictate his version of the story. Witnesses only have their perception of what happened, which may be colored (no pun intended) by their own life experiences. The only entity I trust less than the media and the legal profession, is the government. The entire country is guessing about what happened, based upon "what if" scenarios. Just sayin'. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-26-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    I consider absolutely nothing to be beneath the media and lawyers. If there is no story, the media will create one, and if his client has killed and eaten young, black children, an attorney will attempt to spin it into a "mercy killing by a starving man". The only living person that knows "the truth" of this matter is Zimmerman himself, and his survival instincts will dictate his version of the story. Witnesses only have their perception of what happened, which may be colored (no pun intended) by their own life experiences. The only entity I trust less than the media and the legal profession, is the government. The entire country is guessing about what happened, based upon "what if" scenarios. Just sayin'. Pax...
    It's always a guess. We know that...

    Even with a decent investigation (or supposed one) and a jury trial it still is not always absolute...

    In any case, he brought it on himself. His poor judgement resulted in this frenzy.

    Make a bad choice, pay for it. Cause and effect...
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    That pendulum swings both ways though...

    One could argue that Martin attacking his follower was about as dumb as Denny being in the middle of a race riot but blaming the victim isn't the thing to do eh?
    You're comparing apples and pork now.


    Posted using my HTCEvo via Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    You're comparing apples and pork now.


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    Really???

    One innocent person was attacked for dubious reasons and because he was white.

    Another innocent (remember that innocent until proven guilty) person was attacked for dubious reasons and possibly because he was black.

    Shrug, seems similar enough to me. At least until a proper investigation occurs seeing as how now there are witness that corroborate AND refute Zimmerman's story. Unless you have evidence otherwise...
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

  14. #14
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    Really???

    One innocent person was attacked for dubious reasons and because he was white.

    Another innocent (remember that innocent until proven guilty) person was attacked for dubious reasons and possibly because he was black.
    Looks like a couple of "apples" to me. Pax...
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  15. #15
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    Another innocent (remember that innocent until proven guilty) person was attacked for dubious reasons and possibly because he was black.
    It's nice that you point out the kid is innocent until proven guilty while painting Zimmerman as the agressor. You don't know who started the confrontation, you don't know what happened. All we have is the testimony of Zimmerman, the police reports and the testimony of an annoymous witness as given to a local news station. All of which suggest that Zimmerman acted in self defense.

    One is not like the other.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    It's nice that you point out the kid is innocent until proven guilty while painting Zimmerman as the agressor. You don't know who started the confrontation, you don't know what happened. All we have is the testimony of Zimmerman, the police reports and the testimony of an annoymous witness as given to a local news station. All of which suggest that Zimmerman acted in self defense.

    One is not like the other.
    I didn't say Zimmerman was guilty at all.

    What I am saying is "you assuming Zimmerman is not guilty is different than my assumption that the kid is not guilty how?"

    I care less about an anonymous witness and since when do people HERE, on OCDO, trust the police??? On our news station (I think it was Fox, couldn't be sure) this morning a witness, a white lady, was saying that she didn't understand how Zimmerman wasn't arrested because she saw what happened and it didn't match up to the story.

    What does that suggest?

    As mistrustful as people are around here, I'm surprised erring on the side of the kid is not the DEFAULT position... Just look at the thread in the VA forum about the Culpepper shooting where the cop shoot the white lady. In that thread everyone thinks the lady is innocent despite eyewitness reports and police statements. What's the difference between that lady and Trayvon Martin? Why the difference in assumptions? Why is it more acceptable there to mistrust the cops and attacker than here?

    Oh... Yeah...

    And no... I'm not saying your racist. Sigh...

    I'm saying theres a tangible discrepancy RIGHT HERE, on OCDO, with no legitimate cause... Or am I crazy???

    One is exactly the other until the case is closed and even then you can't really be sure barring video evidence and even then video can be altered. But that's getting into tin-foil hat land.
    Last edited by Stanley; 03-26-2012 at 01:23 PM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

  17. #17
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    I didn't say you claimed he was guilty, I said you painted him as the aggressor.

    We don't know who attacked who. Let alone their reasons for doing so. Thus this is not like the LA case where several men clearly attacked the truck driver for silly reasons. You made a serious jump when comparing the two.

    For the record, I'm not assuming anything. I'm just saying it looks like self defense.

    As for the woman, I have no idea. I don't know anything about that case, so I can not comment on it.

    Posted using my HTCEvo via Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Regular Member William Fisher's Avatar
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    It's these two statements from the article that I have a problem with:


    [A lawyer representing the Martin family disputes Zimmerman's self defense claims, saying he "stalked" Martin against the instructions of a 911 operator.]

    ["Had Zimmerman simply stayed in his vehicle, Trayvon Martin would be pursuing his dreams," Crump said.]

    I f those are true, I believe Zimmerman s actions hieghtened the situation to the point that the young man was killed.

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    I have watched casually both cases. In the culpepper incident the cops have a dog in the fight so to speak, it was one of their own that did it, and they have so far even prevented the release of the name of the officer involved. The obvious circling of the wagon in a situation where the only wittness to the incident said the cop was in no danger is what causes those in that thread to be most questioning of the police.

    In this incident, I tend to trust the cops a little more cause they are pretty unbiased observers. Kind of like an umpire at a game, they don't have a dog in the hunt. So far the police account, and what evidence I can see tends to be in Mr. Zimmermans favor that he acted in self defense.

    It is not smart that Zimmerman followed the teen. That, however, is not a crime. The question at hand is who attacked who. Zimmerman said he was attacked from behind. The evidence at this time seems to back him up (cuts to his head/face) with no wounds to Mr. Martin (excepting the gunshot wound that ended the fight). Could this be false, certainly, but right now I have no reason to doubt the account that has been given.

  20. #20
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    If the conclusions of the Florida investigation warrant a grand jury looking into this incident - it will be presented to one. If a grand jury issues an indictment - manslaughter at the most -the case will go to trial. Then the evidence, testimony, credibility of witnesses will be evaluated by a jury.

    All of this national uproar-and prejudicial commentary lessens the probability that Zimmerman could ever receive a fair trial anywhere in this country. If it were not 9 months and counting to remove Obama from the White House - this incident wouldn't be making any news at all - regardless of who was at fault. "Community organizers" in action .

    It is not a crime to keep an eye on a "suspicious person". I did that exact thing myself about 2 weeks ago.

    Yep - you guessed it - young black male in a hoodie with his pants down around his cheeks on an 80 degree day, peeping into unattended parked cars in a shopping center. Then the guy walked into the "Joann's" store where my wife & I were also going. Joann's is primarily patronized by housewives interested in fabrics, and home decor.

    I also called the non-emergency PD number, and contacted the manager of Joann's expressing my concern about the individual while waiting for the PD. Before the PD arrived the manager was able to determine that the individual was actually in the company of a customer, and that he had a "learning disability". I called off the PD.

    I honestly suspected the guy was looking for an opportunity to snatch one of those fancy purses from some lady. I did not approach, or confront the guy. I kept my distance but did maintain observation of him, and his behavior was odd to say the least.

    This is all that Zimmerman was doing.

    If the evidence supports Zimmerman's claim that Martin approached, confronted, and closed aggressively on him - and assaulted him - Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force - "Stand your ground law" or not.

    I think the Black Panthers, and knucklehead students need to do some "chillin'" on this one -and wait for the facts to be determined.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 03-26-2012 at 08:27 PM.

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