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Thread: First Traffic Stop With a Gun on my Hip!

  1. #1
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    First Traffic Stop With a Gun on my Hip!

    Howdy Folks!
    Despite the fact that I haven't any blemish on my driving record for the past 7 years, I thought I'd have one tonight.

    I just returned from the bank, where I made a late night deposit. As I was returning home, I drove through the intersection of Chambers and 6th ave and was surprised to have those blue and reds pop on behind me. I immediately hit my right turn signal and pulled over to the shoulder.

    The Aurora P.D. officer came to the car and I asked "What did I do, officer?" The question was asked because I purely had not the first clue why he was stopping me. The officer asked for my license, registration and insurance. Since my wallet was laying on the set next to me (because I just got done at the bank and all) I already had it in my hands when he stopped me. "I have my concealed carry permit here too, and I am armed." This was something that got his attention. "Where is your handgun now?" he asked. "It is on my left hip." The officer shined his flashlight down at my belt and could see my XDm .40 holstered in cross-draw fashion, which I tend to favor anyhow.

    He took my license and other documentation and said "I'm just going to review your documents and ask that you don't exist the vehicle because you are armed, and keep your hands visible when I return, okay?" I replied "I am not a threat to you or anybody else officer. My handgun is defensive, and I carry it to prevent threats to me." He said "I'll be right back sir. Just give me a minute."

    At this point, I still had no idea why I was pulled over. The light at the last intersection was red when I approached it, but I did stop. I waited for it to turn green, and no sooner did I move forward than he hit the lights. Obviously I wasn't speeding, so I truly had no clue why I was sitting on the shoulder, waiting for a policeman to return my paperwork.

    Finally he returned, and said "The reason I stopped you is because you have a headlight out. I'm not going to write a ticket, but just warn that you need to get that taken care of."

    Something about Subarus, they tend to burn out headlights. My wife has a Subaru, and so do I. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart. And both of them seem to eat headlights for breakfast. At least once a month, I'm replacing one of the other. I mentioned that to him and he told me he has a vehicle that does the same thing.

    As he handed back my license, registration and insurance information, he said "I really appreciate the way you handled yourself in this stop. You let me know you are armed, and cooperated with my request to stay in the vehicle and keep your hands visible. I want to thank you for handling things as you did!"

    I was surprised he'd say that, and pleased that I wasn't getting a ticket too! So, being a good sort of guy, I replied... "Well sir, I'm one of those law abiding citizen sort of people who carry for self defense. After all, you guys cant be everywhere. By the way, what sort of sidearm do you carry?"

    He told me he carries a Glock and we had a moment of discussion about handguns until we parted company. I drove home and sat myself down in front of the computer to tell this tale.

    And I will admit, freely and of my own volition... I was nervous. I don't get stopped much, and it felt like an extraordinary situation to me. Yeah, I was nervous and told that to the police officer as I fumbled for documents. He seemed to take it in stride that I ain't much accustomed to being stopped. He appreciated the manner that I handled this traffic stop, and to be honest, I really appreciated his in return.

    Now I'd better get another headlight before my next midnight outing in the wife's car!!!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  2. #2
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    More wonderful interference from the state.

    This was a fishing expedition. The proof is in the pudding. If the cop wants to warn a motorist about a burned out headlight, he doesn't have to demand to see the motorists license and registration. The officer could just say, "Please fix the headlight, sir. I've got a Subaru that does the same thing, so I understand." He was fishing for more.

    Nor does a burned out headlight necessitate leaving the citizen in mystery as to why he was stopped until mid-way through the seizure. Probably some cop "thing" to keep people off-balance. The height of disregard for a citizen. "You just stop when I hit the lights. Yours is not to reason why; yours is only to comply. We're not going to have any uppity citizens making up their own minds about whether the seizure is lawful."
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-26-2012 at 10:55 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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  3. #3
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    More wonderful interference from the state.

    A warning for a burned-out headlight does not require handing over license and registration and whatnot.
    Howdy Citizen!
    Is there something that I can read that confirms that I am not required to produce license and registration? I'd surely like to know where that may be found so I can use it next time I get stopped for something of that ilk. And would such be the case in Colorado? What specific requirements must I comply with during a traffic stop anyhow?

    My problem is simple. I just don't get stopped. I don't speed (ordinarily), don't violate traffic laws, and have a clean MVR plus over 8,000 safe driving hours as documented by my employer. So I don't know what specifics I must adhere to when stopped.

    As to his initial failure to answer my question, yes, that was disconcerting. If I am stopped, I want to know why I am being detained at the outset.

    Thanks for any insight you might provide, especially specific statutes that might apply to a traffic stop in Colorado.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Since headlights these days can be replaced by hand, I keep spares with me in the car. Cheap insurance plus I hate driving with only half the lighting available to me. I figure no better way to defuse a ticket than to fix the issue with the office standing there (haven't had the chance to test this theory out, however).

    As for license and registration, if you're driving, you have to hand them over. Both are instruments of generating revenue (albeit small) to maintain the public road you're driving on. Can't find it in the CRS at the moment, however.

    Before the but, but, buts start: For a vehicle that never leaves private property: No license or registration required, nor be produced. If your vehicle is on private property (let's say a 7-11)? Well, lets just say unless you can convince the officer that it was trailered (not just towed) there, yhea, you're gonna have to cough 'em up because you probably drove on a public roadway to get there

    And yes, once he had your license in had he went on a fishing expedition by running it for wants an warrants.

    O2
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 03-26-2012 at 11:34 AM.
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
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  5. #5
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    And yes, once he had your license in had he went on a fishing expedition by running it for wants an warrants.
    O2
    Howdy Pard!
    Seems like he should have suspected the fish were not biting the minute he saw my CCW permit, which is tethered to my driver's license. After all, the issue date is like 9 months ago, and the likelihood that I've gone on a crime spree are fairly slim considering I went to all the trouble of getting a CCW to begin with! In fact, he'd have known I have a CCW the minute he stopped my car. First thing an officer does is to run the plate. The plate will indicate the owner is a CCW holder. Granted, it was my wife's car, but the CCW he had in his hands was mine! (my wife also a CCW carrier.)

    Point being, if he was fishing, it should have been obvious right up front that we weren't biting!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    n fact, he'd have known I have a CCW the minute he stopped my car. First thing an officer does is to run the plate. The plate will indicate the owner is a CCW holder.
    There's some question on that in CO. I think it depends on the county you get your CCW.

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    There's some question on that in CO. I think it depends on the county you get your CCW.
    That's right. It's up to the Sheriff to put CHP info into the database...All I know is that El Paso County doesn't do it, pretty sure Teller doesn't either but as for the rest of CO counties, I have no idea.
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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Let me guess, you have a 3rd gen (2005-2008) Outback or Legacy? My brother in law has a 2005 and he has the same complaint.

    I have a 2000 Outback and haven't had this problem at all. I've had the car for almost 2 years now and I haven't changed the headlights once, so I think it's exclusive to those years.

    Also, I suspect they've been in there quite a while as they seem to be awfully dim these days (while the fog lights, which I think take the same bulb, are plenty bright). I'm thinking about changing mine out before they go out just because I want them bright again
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    There's some question on that in CO. I think it depends on the county you get your CCW.
    The El Paso County Sheriff does not share the list of permit carriers to the state database.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Citizen!
    Is there something that I can read that confirms that I am not required to produce license and registration? I'd surely like to know where that may be found so I can use it next time I get stopped for something of that ilk.
    My fault. I wrote that poorly. No, you'd better hand over license, registration, and if required, proof of insurance.

    Please permit me to re-state.

    Warning someone about a burned out headlight does not require checking his license and registration, nor searching multiple databases for warrants, parole violations, etc., etc., etc. That is to say, the cop doesn't have to go through all that merely to warn someone about a burned out light.

    I went back and rewrote the earlier post to clear up and prevent the same misunderstanding happening to others.
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-26-2012 at 10:57 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Elbert County does not share its CHP information in the database either.

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    Didn't they disband the CCIC database of permit holders? Here's an RMGO news release from before they did:
    http://www.rmgo.org/latest-news/stop-ccic-entry

    I'm almost certain the legislature didn't renew it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Let me guess, you have a 3rd gen (2005-2008) Outback or Legacy?
    Howdy Amigo!
    My car is a 2002 Legacy. Unfortunately for the theory, my wife's is a 1997 Subaru Legacy. I almost thought you nailed it right on the head, until I remembered that I was driving the wifey-mobile last night.

    Speaking of which, I need to go to the bank later tonight, and I'll be taking her car again! Fortunately, she got that bulb changed today!

    To be honest, I am now certain that the bulb burned out while I was going to the bank or returning from it. I know this because when I came home from my day job, she pulled out of the driveway so I could pull mine in. Both headlights were lit at that time, and we didn't go anywhere after that except for my adventure later with the cop after I'd made a deposit to the bank.

    In other words, I could not have known my headlight was burned out because it must have happened during my trip to the bank and back, the middle of which got me stopped by a cop.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    More wonderful interference from the state.

    This was a fishing expedition. The proof is in the pudding. If the cop wants to warn a motorist about a burned out headlight, he doesn't have to demand to see the motorists license and registration. The officer could just say, "Please fix the headlight, sir. I've got a Subaru that does the same thing, so I understand." He was fishing for more.
    I for one fully support and am glad that cops demand ID from people. Its how we actually find and catch criminals. Get over it.

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Point being, if he was fishing, it should have been obvious right up front that we weren't biting!
    Not saying it's right or wrong, just say'n that's what happens!

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    That's right. It's up to the Sheriff to put CHP info into the database...All I know is that El Paso County doesn't do it, pretty sure Teller doesn't either but as for the rest of CO counties, I have no idea.
    Effective July 1st. last year, the database was required to be disabled by law. The original bill that created it in '03 had a sunset clause.

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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    I for one fully support and am glad that cops demand ID from people. Its how we actually find and catch criminals. Get over it.
    Wrong. The police catch criminals (when they actually do) by investigating actual crimes against persons or property, not by stopping the general population on pretexts to try to catch the .00001% that either have a warrant out or are holding some type of contraband they are too dumb to conceal.

    By your logic, why don't cops just strip-search every person they come into contact with? After all, that would surely uncover some criminal activity!



    Go take your naked statism elsewhere, jackboot.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
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  18. #18
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Fishing expedition, pure and simple. He should have told you immediately why he stopped you and the worst you could have gotten was a 'Fix it" ticket, not a citation. Any court would throw out a ticket for something that could have happened without your knowledge 3 minutes before the cop saw it, assuming you could show you repaired it the next day. You also had no duty to say squat about the gun, as a loaded, open or concealed handgun is completely legal in CO without a CCW in your vehicle. It worked out ok for you, which is good, but don't think the cop did you any favors.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Wrong. The police catch criminals (when they actually do) by investigating actual crimes against persons or property, not by stopping the general population on pretexts to try to catch the .00001% that either have a warrant out or are holding some type of contraband they are too dumb to conceal.

    By your logic, why don't cops just strip-search every person they come into contact with? After all, that would surely uncover some criminal activity!



    Go take your naked statism elsewhere, jackboot.
    You know nothing about police. Stop wasting our time and go back to minding your own Idaho business.
    Last edited by Deserteagle8338; 03-27-2012 at 02:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    You know nothing about police. Stop wasting our time and go back to minding your own Idaho business.
    Thanks for your well-reasoned, valuable contribution to the discussion. Run along now; the adults are talking about serious business here.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Thanks for your well-reasoned, valuable contribution to the discussion. Run along now; the adults are talking about serious business here.
    You have one very loose definition of adult if you include yourself. Go back to trolling the Idaho forums.
    Last edited by Deserteagle8338; 03-27-2012 at 05:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    You have one very loose definition of adult if you include yourself. Go back to trolling the Idaho forums.
    Guess what, numbnuts? Even in Colorado, ordinary citizens aren't required to identify themselves to police. A Colorado resident need only identify if he is already suspected (based on preexisting circumstances) of a crime (16-3-103).


    16-3-103. Stopping of suspect. (1) A peace officer may stop any person who he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime and may require him to give his name and address, identification if available, and an explanation of his actions. A peace officer shall not require any person who is stopped pursuant to this section to produce or divulge such person's social security number. The stopping shall not constitute an arrest.
    You'd know this if you had been a poster for longer than 5 months, but some of us actually deal in rights enumerated in the Constitution and the statutes on the books. If you want to fantasize about some non-existent police state where law enforcement can demand ID at will in the name of "catching criminals," feel free to do so elsewhere.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 03-27-2012 at 05:47 PM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    I for one fully support and am glad that cops demand ID from people. Its how we actually find and catch criminals. Get over it.
    I would ask him which other rights he wanted to surrender, but I think I already know the response.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Last I checked, this is a free country, and we don't have to carry papers, unless required for driving, or things REQUIRING it. SO, M-T had to show L&R, but in CO, not his permit. FACT!!
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Guess what, numbnuts? Even in Colorado, ordinary citizens aren't required to identify themselves to police. A Colorado resident need only identify if he is already suspected (based on preexisting circumstances) of a crime (16-3-103).




    You'd know this if you had been a poster for longer than 5 months, but some of us actually deal in rights enumerated in the Constitution and the statutes on the books. If you want to fantasize about some non-existent police state where law enforcement can demand ID at will in the name of "catching criminals," feel free to do so elsewhere.
    What the hell are you even trying to argue? Guess what numbnuts, he was pulled over for a crime and he had to produce a driver license, legally. Oh no God forbid!


    Please show me where he was not required to produce an ID after being stopped by the cop for a violation. I'd love to see that. Otherwise, you have no point, you are just agreeing with me in that the cop had every right to demand his ID.

    I said I support the police demanding his ID, which they legally did. Then here comes numbnuts a-hole from Idaho trolling on my post, and then the numbnuts proves that what I support is legal in Colorado law..
    Last edited by Deserteagle8338; 03-27-2012 at 08:54 PM.

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