Sadly, it's official... VaTech...

mk4 · Mar 26, 2012

...has become a criminal free-action zone.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-virginia-tech-prohibits-weapons-on-campus-20120326,0,4274807.story

BLACKSBURG; Va. — A heated gun debate is now settled at Virginia Tech. The University has passed a regulation restricting weapons of any kind in campus buildings and at campus events.

peter nap · Mar 27, 2012

What a relief!

Campus is safe again. I'll let the tooth Fairy know.

TFred · Mar 27, 2012

Let's hope that this is just the beginning of the end. Let the litigation commence.

TFred

ocholsteroc · Mar 27, 2012

Does this mean pocket knifes?

...has become a criminal free-action zone

Wow so safe now. Watch out for pencil stabbing, fist fighting people. :banghead:

marshaul · Mar 27, 2012

I wish I had standing to sue Tech for depriving me of my rights, and offering nothing to defend my in their stead.

I'd seriously love for my name to be among the plaintiffs in litigation against the school.

Their warning system is a joke, btw. "Secure in place"? That worked out oh-so-well last time, didn't it?

VCDL President · Mar 27, 2012

It shouldn't be effective yet. It won't become effective until after it is published. That could be a few months.

mk4 · Mar 27, 2012

isn't publishing it just a formality without public comment possible? as i recall, uva got their regulation published to vac without a public hearing, correct?

peter nap · Mar 27, 2012

mk4 said:
isn't publishing it just a formality without public comment possible? as i recall, uva got their regulation published to vac without a public hearing, correct?

Yep!
Done deal.

marshaul · Mar 27, 2012

Just out of curiosity, what's the difference between being in violation of school policy and the VAC?

peter nap · Mar 27, 2012

marshaul said:
Just out of curiosity, what's the difference between being in violation of school policy and the VAC?

School policy is only for staff and students and can only get you fired or kicked out.
Violation of the VAC is a criminal charge.

Ric in Richmond · Mar 27, 2012

Why not just post it a murder free zone? Or better yet a "no bad things ever happen here zone"?

Same effect.

What is with people believing that laws stop criminals?

WHY IS THIS SO HARD? CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY LAWS!

You would think people at a college would be smarter.

SouthernBoy · Mar 27, 2012

Ric in Richmond said:
Why not just post it a murder free zone? Or better yet a "no bad things ever happen here zone"?

Same effect.

What is with people believing that laws stop criminals?

WHY IS THIS SO HARD? CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY LAWS!

You would think people at a college would be smarter.

Not quite. High school students are the second dumbest people because they think they know everything. College students are the dumbest because they KNOW they know everything.

Yes I was once a college student, but I waited until I was well into adulthood before attending. And yes, I could definitely tell the difference between myself and some of the younger students.

grylnsmn · Mar 27, 2012

peter nap said:
School policy is only for staff and students and can only get you fired or kicked out.
Violation of the VAC is a criminal charge.

Not quite. IIRC (someone like user can correct me if they need to), only the GA can create criminal charges, and all criminal charges have to be in the Code of Virginia. State agencies (including universities) do not have that power, and the VAC does not contain criminal charges. It contains rules for state agencies, but the violation of those rules would lead to civil penalties, not criminal ones.

Of course, violating a VAC rule against possession of a firearm in a university building could lead to criminal charges of trespass against you, but that isn't the same thing as saying that violation of the VAC is, in and of itself, a criminal charge.

peter nap · Mar 27, 2012

Ric in Richmond said:
Why not just post it a murder free zone? Or better yet a "no bad things ever happen here zone"?

Same effect.

What is with people believing that laws stop criminals?

WHY IS THIS SO HARD? CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY LAWS!

You would think people at a college would be smarter.

Perhaps Ric....that's natures way of cleaning up the gene pool. People who are not smart enough to know the difference between a "Criminal" and an honest person who deliberately breaks a law that is unjust or can get them killed, are only passing on M Genes!

Think about it. If you were at a stop light that caused you to be across a train track...and a train was coming, would you run the light?

Nuff said!

And no Ed, I didn't break a board rule, I just asked a question.:uhoh:

peter nap · Mar 27, 2012

grylnsmn said:
Not quite. IIRC (someone like user can correct me if they need to), only the GA can create criminal charges, and all criminal charges have to be in the Code of Virginia. State agencies (including universities) do not have that power, and the VAC does not contain criminal charges. It contains rules for state agencies, but the violation of those rules would lead to civil penalties, not criminal ones.

Of course, violating a VAC rule against possession of a firearm in a university building could lead to criminal charges of trespass against you, but that isn't the same thing as saying that violation of the VAC is, in and of itself, a criminal charge.

I'll let User answer that because I don't have a cite, but my understanding is that violating a VAC provision was a Class 1 Misdemeanor.

Don't take this a cite because it may not cover the entire VAC..:

13VAC5-63-150. Section 115 Violations.

A. Section 115.1 Violation a misdemeanor; civil penalty. In accordance with § 36-106 of the Code of Virginia, it shall be unlawful for any owner or any other person, firm or corporation, on or after the effective date of any code provisions, to violate any such provisions. Any locality may adopt an ordinance that establishes a uniform schedule of civil penalties for violations of specified provisions of the code that are not abated or remedied promptly after receipt of a notice of violation from the local enforcement officer.

Note: See the full text of § 36-106 of the Code of Virginia for additional requirements and criteria pertaining to legal action relative to violations of the code.

Another reference to criminal violation of the VAC, this time ABC violations:

VAC - These rules are primarily enforced by Virginia ABC special agents and are targeted at ABC licensees. The violation of these rules can be punishable by fines, probation or revocation of the ABC license. These codes represent the agency regulations that apply to the ABC Act in the Code of Virginia. 3 VAC-5-10-10 is the beginning of the ABC portion. (Administrative penalties)

marshaul · Mar 27, 2012

SouthernBoy said:
Not quite. High school students are the second dumbest people because they think they know everything. College students are the dumbest because they KNOW they know everything.

Just the other day I pointed out that Montgomery and Radford Counties went to Ron Paul in the Republican Primary, while Giles County (where I live, and right next door) went handily to Romney.

Frankly, I think this speaks volumes. And within those volumes is the fact that you're wrong.

Folks set in their ways after decades on mindless partisanship are just as capable of overestimating their own understanding.

You'l note that it's the administration, i.e. a bunch of former college students, who enacting the regulation referred to in the post to which you're responding.

As it happens, I'm beginning to think that mindlessly giving college kids the bad rap they haven't really earned is part and parcel of the process which ensures that Obomney is reelected time and time and time again.

Better stifle independent thought before it takes root!

grylnsmn · Mar 27, 2012

peter nap said:
I'll let User answer that because I don't have a cite, but my understanding is that violating a VAC provision was a Class 1 Misdemeanor.

Don't take this a cite because it may not cover the entire VAC..:

By what I see there, the VAC itself doesn't create the criminal charge, but 36-106 does. (Hence its saying "In accordance with § 36-106 of the Code of Virginia".) That would only apply to the specific charge (violating the building code) in 36-106.

peter nap said:
Another reference to criminal violation of the VAC, this time ABC violations:

I don't see anything in there indicating any criminal penalties. In fact, everything listed at your link is stated as a civil penalty. (The probation mentioned appears to be a probationary period for the license.)

A civil penalty is very different from a criminal one. Criminal charges carry the potential for jail time. Civil penalties do not.

EDIT: In fact, the page you seem to have quoted from specifically differentiates between the COV (Code of Virginia), which includes criminal sanctions, and the VAC.

COV - Virginia ABC special agents, state police and local law enforcement enforce these laws. The violation of these laws is punishable as a criminal act with fines and/or jail time. 4.1-100 is the beginning section of the ABC Act of the Code of Virginia.

ChinChin · Mar 27, 2012

So in essence. . .just like Cho chained the doors to the buildings to keep his victims contained and make the environment more conducive to his murder spree, so too has VT administration symbolically chained the entire campus to provide an easier environment for murderers, rapists and robbers to operate.

peter nap · Mar 27, 2012

grylnsmn said:
By what I see there, the VAC itself doesn't create the criminal charge, but 36-106 does. (Hence its saying "In accordance with § 36-106 of the Code of Virginia".) That would only apply to the specific charge (violating the building code) in 36-106.

I don't see anything in there indicating any criminal penalties. In fact, everything listed at your link is stated as a civil penalty. (The probation mentioned appears to be a probationary period for the license.)

A civil penalty is very different from a criminal one. Criminal charges carry the potential for jail time. Civil penalties do not.

EDIT: In fact, the page you seem to have quoted from specifically differentiates between the COV (Code of Virginia), which includes criminal sanctions, and the VAC.

Glad to hear it. You can test it for us now:lol:
Like I said earlier, I'll wait for User!

ocholsteroc · Mar 27, 2012

peter nap said:
School policy is only for staff and students and can only get you fired or kicked out.
Violation of the VAC is a criminal charge.

VAC? VA code? How do you know if a college is under VAC? I only seen School policy's like ODU etc.. how can you tell if VAC is enforced?

Sadly, it's official... VaTech...

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