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Thread: Can defend.

  1. #1
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Can defend.

    I was openly carrying and just happened to see this. I Found it interesting...

    http://www.kndu.com/story/17270680/l...our-ground-law
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Damn it, leave Washington out of this. We had no part in the Florida thing.
    If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.
    --- Arkansas Supreme Court, Wilson v. State (1878)

  3. #3
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Or, just join the liberal flock and have your head bashed in curbside by some thug, It's the Obamanation; the transformation.

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    Thanks for sharing AMZ, would have missed it if you hadn't posted the link.

    I think it was good for local news to run that kind of story, at least it would inform people unaware of our right to defend ourselves up to the point to using force. Sure it was prompted by the incident in Florida, but at least that incident wasn't the focal point instead the truth about our right in WA to self-defense were sown. I don't imagine the report would change the minds of any anti folks who saw it, but it could get the wheel a-spinnin' in the minds of peope who have wondered about self defense. It's also reassuring to me to see local PA go on the record regarding the matter in an affirmative light.

  5. #5
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Snip (A person must feel they're in imminent danger."With imminent danger, even if the jury finds that the person wasn't really in danger, but if the defendant truly believed they were really in danger, then self defense applies."
    He says the law in Washington tends to make it more difficult than some other states to prosecute, and the burden of proof lies with the state, not defense. "The state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are not acting in self defense, and you have to view it from the defendant's eyes and that there doesn't have to be an actual danger, just a perceived danger and that there's no duty to retreat," says Miller.)

    A few people I have talked to have said they thought we could only defend ourselves on our own private property. More people need to be educated on this.

    I think about how things are changing as gang members in our area get more and more brazen. More drive shootings, more daytime robberies, shootings across from police stations, shootings of police officers and park rangers. As an Open Carrierer, I think it is only a matter of time before a gang member challenges one of us. I pray it never happens, but seeing all the gang violence increasing, has put this in the back of my mind.

    Yes the Tryvon Martin shooting has invoked a march with hoodies and a riot, which I dont fully understand. http://www.local10.com/news/Surveill...z/-/index.html . I wonder why this did not get as much attention. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lind-date.html. Maybe we should all put on an afro and riot, oh wait we have jobs....
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    <Snip>
    I think about how things are changing as gang members in our area get more and more brazen. More drive shootings, more daytime robberies, shootings across from police stations, shootings of police officers and park rangers. As an Open Carrierer, I think it is only a matter of time before a gang member challenges one of us. I pray it never happens, but seeing all the gang violence increasing, has put this in the back of my mind.
    There is less crime, less drive by shootings and less robberies, that is a fact and numbers have been decreasing. Most gang members shoot each other and not the general public. Most gang members commit crimes in their territories.
    Live Free or Die!

  7. #7
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    There is less crime, less drive by shootings and less robberies, that is a fact and numbers have been decreasing. Most gang members shoot each other and not the general public. Most gang members commit crimes in their territories.
    Yea, I guess your right...http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Ga...ted-News?st=WA
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  8. #8
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    FBI statistics on violent crime

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...homa-wisconsin

    General trend seems to be down, but some of the category numbers are low enough that not much statistical validity to ANY change. Oh my I just used statistic and valid in the same sentence

  9. #9
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    While it is nice to have articles written as this, I prefer to be able to find where it applies in law if ever called upon.

    If there are more references to the issue of Stand Your Ground here in Washington State, do add.

    RCW 9A.16.010 Definitions.
    In this chapter, unless a different meaning is plainly required:
    (1) "Necessary" means that no reasonably effective alternative to the use of force appeared to exist and that the amount of force used was reasonable to effect the lawful purpose intended.

    RCW 9A.16.020 Use of force — When lawful.
    The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:
    (1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction;
    (2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;
    (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;
    (4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;
    (5) Whenever used by a carrier of passengers or the carrier's authorized agent or servant, or other person assisting them at their request in expelling from a carriage, railway car, vessel, or other vehicle, a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful and reasonable regulation prescribed for the conduct of passengers, if such vehicle has first been stopped and the force used is not more than is necessary to expel the offender with reasonable regard to the offender's personal safety;
    (6) Whenever used by any person to prevent a mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or mentally disabled person from committing an act dangerous to any person, or in enforcing necessary restraint for the protection or restoration to health of the person, during such period only as is necessary to obtain legal authority for the restraint or custody of the person.

    RCW 9A.16.050 Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.
    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:
    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or
    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

    WPIC 16.05 Necessary—Definition
    Necessary means that, under the circumstances as they reasonably appeared to the actor at the time, (1) no reasonably effective alternative to the use of force appeared to exist and (2) the amount of force used was reasonable to effect the lawful purpose intended.

    WPIC 16.07 Justifiable Homicide—Actual Danger Not Necessary
    A person is entitled to act on appearances in defending [himself][herself][another], if that person believes in good faith and on reasonable grounds that [he][she][another] is in actual danger of great personal injury, although it afterwards might develop that the person was mistaken as to the extent of the danger.
    Actual danger is not necessary for a homicide to be justifiable.

    WPIC 16.08 No Duty To Retreat
    It is lawful for a person who is in a place where that person has a right to be and who has reasonable grounds for believing that [he][she] is being attacked to stand [his][her] ground and defend against such attack by the use of lawful force. The law does not impose a duty to retreat.

    WPIC 16.02 Justifiable Homicide—Defense of Self and Others

    It is a defense to a charge of [murder] [manslaughter] that the homicide was justifiable as defined in this instruction.
    Homicide is justifiable when committed in the lawful defense of [the slayer] [the slayer's [husband] [wife] [registered domestic partner] [parent] [child] [brother] [sister]] [any person in the slayer's presence or company] when:
    1) the slayer reasonably believed that the person slain [or others whom the defendant reasonably believed were acting in concert with the person slain] intended [to commit a felony] [to inflict death or great personal injury];
    2) the slayer reasonably believed that there was imminent danger of such harm being accomplished; and
    3) the slayer employed such force and means as a reasonably prudent person would use under the same or similar conditions as they reasonably appeared to the slayer, taking into consideration all the facts and circumstances as they appeared to [him] [her], at the time of [and prior to] the incident.
    The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the homicide was not justifiable. If you find that the State has not proved the absence of this defense beyond a reasonable doubt, it will be your duty to return a verdict of not guilty.
    Last edited by BigDave; 03-31-2012 at 11:11 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  10. #10
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    While it is nice to have articles written as this, I prefer to be able to find where it applies in law if ever called upon.

    If there are more references to the issue of Stand Your Ground here in Washington State, do add.

    snip...
    State v. Bland, 128 Wn. App. 511 (2005) -- okay to point a gun at someone to make them leave your house. Changed the language of the WPIC.
    This includes overzealous LE.

  11. #11
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    State v. Bland, 128 Wn. App. 511 (2005) -- okay to point a gun at someone to make them leave your house. Changed the language of the WPIC.
    This includes overzealous LE.
    You lack context about your second point of suggesting pointing a gun at law enforcement to make them leave, will likely find yourself in a firefight, dead or imprisoned.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  12. #12
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    You lack context about your second point of suggesting pointing a gun at law enforcement to make them leave, will likely find yourself in a firefight, dead or imprisoned.
    They need to change that. If a cop enters your home uninvited and without warrant, they are an intruder and you should be able to treat them as such.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  13. #13
    Regular Member GuidoZ's Avatar
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    "Stand Your Ground" discussion at Anacortes Library (1220 Tenth Street 98221) on 4-17-12 at 7pm. Speaking is Skagit County Sheriff and Anacortes Police Chief. There will be a moderated Q&A to follow.

    I'll be there.

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    Peace. ~G
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