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How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school?

H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school? How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school without depending on judicial discretion? How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school without depending on police forbearance?

Would law enforcement be righteous in lawful authority in stopping every driver and requesting their Wisconsin Concealed Carry License and photo ID IAW 175.60?

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/prefaces/toc

948.605  Gun-free school zones.
(1)  Definitions. In this section:
(a) "Encased" has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
(ac) "Firearm" does not include any beebee or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
(am) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
(b) "School" has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
(c) "School zone" means any of the following:
1. In or on the grounds of a school.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
(2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
2m. A state-certified commission warden acting in his or her official capacity.
3. That is not loaded and is:
a. Encased; or
b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
3m. A person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest under s. 120.13 (38).
 
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H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school? How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school without depending on judicial discretion? How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school without depending on police forbearance?

1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
No. A driver passing on the street is not "in or on the grounds."
 
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HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
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Terra, Sol
That is not sufficient to be legal with a gun.

How does one get in or on the grounds of the school?

Teleport? Base jump? Throw the firearm really really high in the air, run as fast as possible, then catch the gun in a flying jump when the school grounds are reached?

:cool:
 

bmwguy11

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
461
Location
wisconsin
If you have a permit you can drive by the school fine. The public road is not in or on school grounds. Now if you go into the parking lot, that's a problem.

If you don't have a permit, then you can't drive by a school unless your gun is unloaded and encased.

It's pretty cut and dry?
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
In general, a gun may not come within 1000 feet. There are exceptions. One is for a CCLicensee's gun in or on school grounds. Another is for a gun on private property. There is not an exception for a gun on the public highway.
 

HandyHamlet

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Messages
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Terra, Sol
Sometimes the "Exact words Greg (Brady)!" Legal analysis is superseded by the spirit of the Law.

Again, does the law expect a license holder to burrow 1000 ft into the earth and then across and then up to adhere to a poorly written statute?
 

markush

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Kenosha
How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school? How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school without depending on judicial discretion? How does an armed citizen legally drive near a school without depending on police forbearance?

Would law enforcement be righteous in lawful authority in stopping every driver and requesting their Wisconsin Concealed Carry License and photo ID IAW 175.60?

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/prefaces/toc

948.605  Gun-free school zones.
(1)  Definitions. In this section:
(a) "Encased" has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
(ac) "Firearm" does not include any beebee or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
(am) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
(b) "School" has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
(c) "School zone" means any of the following:
1. In or on the grounds of a school.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
(2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
2m. A state-certified commission warden acting in his or her official capacity.
3. That is not loaded and is:
a. Encased; or
b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
3m. A person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest under s. 120.13 (38).

If you read 18 usc 922 (q) (2) (ii) It states that (2) (a) doesn't apply to people with a license issued by the state in which the school zone is located and has obtained a license. I do see (ii) isn't listed in 1M and am guessing that is what you are questioning.

Can someone tell me how to copy and paste the text from a PDF!! I don't have that option and it's frustrating to have to hand type this stuff.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
I am not questioning anything.

18 USC 922 (q)(2) prohibits, in general, gun carry within 1000 feet with some exceptions that do not include the public highway. Gun carry by a state licensed person may be legal and excepted. In Wisconsin the exception is for "on or in the grounds of a school."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
 

bmwguy11

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
461
Location
wisconsin
In general, a gun may not come within 1000 feet. There are exceptions. One is for a CCLicensee's gun in or on school grounds. Another is for a gun on private property. There is not an exception for a gun on the public highway.

First, ANYONE can have a firearm in or on school grounds so long as the firearm is unloaded and encased or in a locked firearms rack. Wis. Stat. 948.605 2b and 3a and 3b.

A CCW license holder can have a loaded and unencased firearm within 1000' of school grounds (including a public highway). Wis. Stat. 948.605(2)(b)1r.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
A CCW license holder can have a loaded and unencased firearm within 1000' of school grounds (including a public highway). Wis. Stat. 948.605(2)(b)1r.
Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, ..."
 

markush

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Kenosha
I am not questioning anything.

18 USC 922 (q)(2) prohibits, in general, gun carry within 1000 feet with some exceptions that do not include the public highway. Gun carry by a state licensed person may be legal and excepted. In Wisconsin the exception is for "on or in the grounds of a school."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

18 USC 922 (q) (2) (ii) States if you have a license from the state 18 USC 922 (q) (A) does not apply. I don't understand what "public Highway" has to do with anything? If your within a 1000' school zone in Wisconsin and you have a Wisconsin CCL, 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (ii) gives you exemption within that 1000' school zone...public highway, sidewalk, city street, I don't see the difference.
 
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H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
What, pray tell, would be the RAS for the stop? Driving near a school is not a crime.
Neither is a traffic stop absent RAS a crime.

Wisconsin § 345.22 Authority to arrest without a warrant requires only "reasonable grounds." Subsequent § 345.23 Officer's action after arrest without a warrant authorizes little of what stereotypically occurs, as reported here on OCDO.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/prefaces/toc
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
I am not questioning anything.

18 USC 922 (q)(2) prohibits, in general, gun carry within 1000 feet with some exceptions that do not include the public highway. Gun carry by a state licensed person may be legal and excepted. In Wisconsin the exception is for "on or in the grounds of a school."...

Again, does the law expect a license holder to burrow 1000 ft into the earth and then across and then up to adhere to a poorly written statute?
A CCW license holder can have a loaded and unencased firearm within 1000' of school grounds (including a public highway). *Wis. Stat. 948.605(2)(b)1r.

The statute is poorly written but if you read it slowly and pause, it makes sense.
A licensee or an out-of-state licensee may carry a loaded and/or not cased firearm in a GFSZ except for in or on the grounds of the school unless you qualify for one of the general exceptions.
Firearm is not defined to only include "handgun" in 948.605
 
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Teej

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
522
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
Are you really that thick, Doug? It's much clearer than most statutes.

Paragraph (a) does not apply to a licensee or out of state licensee, except if said L/OOSL is on school grounds. Then it applies.
 
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