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Can A LEO take my weapon for "officer safety"

davestradamus

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Lynchburg, VA
I have heard reports and seen on the internet an LEO remove a weapon from a non-threatening and law abiding citizen for "officer safety". Is this seizure of personal property legal in VA?

Thanks,
David
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
David....(Shouldn't use your real name. Goddard will put you on ....THE LIST:uhoh::lol:)

You should attend one of the get togethers in Lynchburg. :lol: JMelvin is there as well as others and are a Wealth of information.

One of these days I'm going to get Dan Hawes down here for one of his seminars. Take what he says as the last word you need.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
It is my understanding is: only if "detained" for suspicion of a CRIME having been, is being/about to be committed....(a traffic infraction is not a crime)

(or you allow it) Only thing you need to say is: Am I being detained? No...walk away. Yes? ask what for, carry of a firearm is not a crime.
 

scouser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
1,341
Location
804, VA
David....(Shouldn't use your real name. Goddard will put you on ....THE LIST:uhoh::lol:)

oh no .. what is "the list" ??? Are any of us safe? IN that case my son's name is really Fred, but he never responds when we call him that ... :lol:
 

davestradamus

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Lynchburg, VA
that is good to know. I am not willing to be a jerk to an LEO, (that Blacksburg gentleman in the video was not) but I want to know what authority they have if I am stopped.

This forum is awesome!

-David (real name, not scared)
 
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peter nap

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Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
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Valhalla
oh no .. what is "the list" ??? Are any of us safe? IN that case my son's name is really Fred, but he never responds when we call him that ... :lol:

Hmmmm, "THE LIST" is hard to describe Scouser.

I'll give an example but I can't really put in the proper accent in print. Imagine a trailer park woman or worse, a Bronx Yankee:rolleyes: (I'll get it for that:uhoh:) saying something like:

We noow a Cop and hee saaid "THEY were watchin them."

Well, the mysterious council of "THEY" keep "THE LIST". The "LIST" contains information on people who need to be watched for some reason.

Makes perfect sense, doesn't "IT":uhoh:
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
If being arrested, certainly.

If being detained for suspicion of having committed a crime, quite possibly.

If being 'voluntarily encountered' then "I'm sorry, Officer Friendly, but I don't have voluntary conversations with armed adversarial parties. You can return my property and we can continue to have a friendly little chat, or you can return my property and I'll skip down the road on my merry fracking way. Now, since you're in charge, I guess you get to make that decision."
 

Mayhem

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
115
Location
Everywhere
Now I know that the cops need to have a legal reason to stop me before they can take my sidearm. No reason to stop = voluntary contact and that means they need my permission.. Not sure why they would ask if I am just going about my business.

But it has been said above the cops cannot take it during a traffic stop. Can someone show me some proof of this?

Because I am thinking that if I am being a total tool to the cop and giving him a rash of crap while we are talking about the stop and I get all aggressive... I suspect he might just want to take my gun and with good reason.

What is the car is full of guys flying their colors and have MS 13 tats?? As long as they play nice can they keep their gun?
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
How can I read an entire thread and find not one cite as required by the forum rules?

Didya all get lazy or something?

The OPers question is answered by the grandaddy of the temporary detention cases: Terry v Ohio.

Here is the relevant quote:

We merely hold today that, where a police officer observes unusual conduct which leads him reasonably to conclude in light of his experience that criminal activity may be afoot and that the persons with whom he is dealing may be armed and presently dangerous, where, in the course of investigating this behavior, he identifies himself as a policeman and makes reasonable inquiries, and where nothing in the initial stages of the encounter serves to dispel his reasonable fear for his own or others' safety, he is entitled for the protection of himself and others in the area to conduct a carefully limited search of the outer clothing of such persons in an attempt to discover weapons which might be used to assault him. Such a search is a reasonable search under the Fourth Amendment and any weapons seized may properly be introduced in evidence against the person from whom they were taken.

The entire opinion can be read here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0392_0001_ZO.html

And, lots of info is available here:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Amendment-Resources-Here!!&highlight=inchoate
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
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Valhalla
Please do, both JMELVIN and myself are willing to make/assist/aid in whatever arrangements are necessary.

I mentioned it not too long ago and I think Dan is swamped now. So am I (I'm learning a new type of filmography, planting season, getting ready to start on Castle Doctrine, Etc).

Hopefully we can work something up by the end of the summer.
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
I took Dan's (user) class up in NOVA last year and found it wonderfully informative. I did some work to find a place down here for him to set up in spring 2011, but then I got so swamped with work I couldn't follow up and I think he may have been busy as well with skidmark's escapades in Surry Co. I think our area would greatly benefit from such a seminar if we can work out the details.

We have at least one restaurant (Monte Carlo) in town that could accomodate a group of 50 to 100 on a Saturday afternoon when they generally aren't open, but have people present preparing for the dinner service after lunch without much if any cost, provided we gave them some business. Monte Carlo has played host to various Tea Party events, and I think it was the dinner gathering place after VCDL's spring Lynchburg gathering in 2010. As Dan already knows there are hotels and such with conference rooms, but they may not fit the bill or they may be too expensive.
 
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peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Please do, both JMELVIN and myself are willing to make/assist/aid in whatever arrangements are necessary.

What I'd like to do is find someplace outside of Richmond that would be an easy drive from Southwest Va, Southern Va, Central Va and the Southern parts of the Shenandoah Valley.

Time is the enemy though!
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Please, would Citizen and User address Reasonable Articulable Suspicion discussions between the arresting officer and his suspect. Is the officer in any way responsible to satisfy the suspect's curiosity, or is RAS/PC material to the officer, the states attorney and the judge?

So often I hear hypotheticals here, "What's your RAS? Without PC you have no cause to interfere with me." If nothing else the right to silence has flown the coop.
 

Sheriff

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
1,968
Location
Virginia, USA
If and when a cop takes your gun, it is usually for one reason, and one reason only..... to run the serial number and see if he can find a criminal charge on you. IMHO, a cop is much safer if a loaded weapon is not handled and handed back and forth.
 
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davestradamus

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Lynchburg, VA
If and when a cop takes your gun, it is usually for one reason, and one reason only..... to run the serial number and see if he can find a criminal charge on you. IMHO, a cop is much safer if a loaded weapon is not handled and handed back and forth.

My thoughts exactly. If my weapon were seized, I would want the officer to unload it at my direction for safety. He/she has not been trained with my particular sidearm and may not be proficient in its usage.
 

Sheriff

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
1,968
Location
Virginia, USA
He/she has not been trained with my particular sidearm and may not be proficient in its usage.

Absolutely correct. A dangerous situation when they have the muzzle pointed in your direction, and they aren't going to turn their back on you of course. I have seen cops on these reality TV shows not know how to disarm a firearm, and they pass it off to the cop next to them.

In addition to all of this, I do not want some cop dropping any of my firearms on the pavement and scratch or scar them. I have seen this done more than once in my career.
 
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paramedic

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Waycross, GA
Not too long ago I posted a thread on here about this very subject. A Prince William County LEO told me he was going to take my weapon due to officer safety. It would take a lot to tell the whole story, you can look it up on here, I am not sure how to do that. The short version is he wanted to ask me some questions, but wanted to take my weapon first, I refused. After about 10 minutes of back and forth, he finally realized he was not going to get my firearm unless he arrested me.

The reason I had the knowledge and the will to resist him and not hand over my gun was because of what I have learned from reading various post in this forum, I have found that most of our regular posters are very knowledgeable, and give great advice.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Besides a Terry stop, cops can take your weapon if you are a passenger in a car whose driver has been arrested.* No citation because my brain is just barely functioning after a long day of dealing with a bureauacracy. (And apparently so are my fingers.)

I'm sure someone else will pop in with the appropriate citation.

stay safe.

*There are conditions to that. If you are outside the vehicle and the weapon is inside, and you are far enough away (sometimes referred to as "beyond arm's reach") and/or the vehicle is locked (HINT) it does not apply. If are are inside the vehicle with the weapon, or outside where you can easily (in someone's mind) reach inside and lay hands on it, the cop can pull "officer safety".
 
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