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Thread: List of Counties/Cities in violation of KRS 65.870

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    List of Counties/Cities in violation of KRS 65.870

    I think that we need a list of all violations that we can find. I will edit this list to show the most up to date listings we have.

    Cities:

    Florence--- Park rule
    [s]Hopkinsville--- Water Park rule[/s]
    Morehead--- 131.02
    Olive hill--- Ordinance being researched
    Paducah--- 30-3
    Pikeville--- Ordinance 130.16

    Counties:

    Lawrence County--- Ordinance 96-006--- Being fixed



    Please leave a reply for other local governments in violation.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 06-01-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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    Morehead- can't remember the #, prohibits concealed weapons on all city property.

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    Olive Hill in Carter County is in violation. Have not checked ordinances yet, but their park rental agreement states no firearms are allowed in parks.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Thanks Glockster.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    131.02
    Thanks Gutshot.
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    Alright, I'm going to be talking to my Uncle who is a city council member Here in Morehead Within the next week, I would like to request that you all make a list of things you would like me to discuss with him and point out.
    Last edited by Cgm2414; 04-03-2012 at 12:21 PM.

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    Everything I mentioned in the post on the other thread. Print out the amended krs 65.870, print out the two articles from the KLC website,(links can be found in the first post of "new ammunition to fight cities" thread, a copy of krs 237.115, and a copy of a sample ordinance that does not violate law. Give him these documents, and inform him there are people watching very closely to see if this ordinance is removed and replaced with a proper ordinance that bans concealed Carry in buildings and nothing else. That is all they have the authority to do, other than prohibiting discharge inside city limits. Make sure you point out on the amended 65.870 the stiff penalties, loss of immunity, and the ability to charge officials with official misconduct if the do not remove illegal ordinances.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Alright, I can do that and I will report back how this goes.

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    Hopkinsville, KY:

    http://hoptownrec.com/tie-breaker-pa...al-information

    This is a city water park. Take note of:

    "No weapons of any kind, even with permit, are not permitted at park."

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heartsglory View Post
    Hopkinsville, KY:

    http://hoptownrec.com/tie-breaker-pa...al-information

    This is a city water park. Take note of:

    "No weapons of any kind, even with permit, are not permitted at park."
    Are you sure it is owned and/or operated by the city of Hopkinsville?
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    Its on the Hopkinsville Parks and Recreational Dept. website.


    http://hoptownrec.com/tie-breaker-pa...al-information
    Does that mean it is part of Hopkinsville though? I am not saying it is not but I am saying that just because it is on their website doesn't mean it is. It might just be a big tourist spot that the city wants to promote to gain tourist money. I am not trying to be difficult, just to make sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Yes, this is a city entity.
    Fine with me, I was just trying to make for sure. It is added to the list.

    Edit: Thanks for clearing my question up.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 04-03-2012 at 11:59 PM.
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    Well issac and myself visited Lawrence county and the judge/exec and assistant county attorney. The judge seemed rather eager to do away with their ordinance once he read the new 65.870. The attorney did not seem thrilled about the situation, however the actual county attorney is running for commonwealth attorney, and says he is very pro-2A in his campaign brochure, (would be a bad time to be proven otherwise!). I am attending the fiscal court meeting to get this on record and before the court so we can do away with this nuisance, which I believe we will do without incident. I plan to visit olive hill and begin the process with them Friday, so I will keep everyone updated. The judge was very courteous and polite, which was great compared to how we are normally received. Not one word was said about either of our openly carried firearms.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Removed
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 04-16-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    You guys are doing great work. What was his objection, or did he just not like a citizen telling him he couldn't do something?
    Acting like he had better things to do, like our constitutional rights were not worth his time. Hopefully the actual county attorney will inform them this ordinance needs to go. I do agree with issac about the judge, I truly believe he has never been made aware of this ordinance, since he was recently elected, there are no signs anywhere, and he seemed concerned, which the fact that official misconduct was thrown around made him concerned I'm sure. There was no resistance like there usually is, I'm hopeful this issue will be solved fairly easily.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post


    After you show him the state statutes, the email and magazine article from the Ky. League of Cities and Attorney General's opinions (96-39, 99-10 and 93-71), the conversation will shift to something like "we are just trying to keep people safe" or "we don't think having guns in this kind of place is a good idea". This is an argument you can not win. Don't take that bait. Say something like "I don't know about that ( or even, You might be right), but the state law is clear, you can't do this, it is prohibited by state law." If he insists an talking about those things say, "That is just your opinion and others have their opinion, but the General Assembly has spoken and the Office of Attorney General agrees, this is the law". Stay on that one point. Never get into any other subject matter. If the conversation gets away from you, just bring it back to that, over and over. You might consider showing him the old KRS 65.870 first, then showing him the new one and saying, "This new, stronger state law was passed this year because of city ordinances like you have in Morehead. The city must comply"
    I'm sure there will be no problems, he is a left wing democrat except when it comes to 2A rights. We are talking about a man that has in excess of 100 firearms in his collection. There is one member that I personally think may have a problem with the new law and she is a local business owner with the worst possible attitude you can think of. If I can't get through to him, I will give you his numbers along with other council members if you don't already had them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgm2414 View Post
    I'm sure there will be no problems, he is a left wing democrat except when it comes to 2A rights. We are talking about a man that has in excess of 100 firearms in his collection. There is one member that I personally think may have a problem with the new law and she is a local business owner with the worst possible attitude you can think of. If I can't get through to him, I will give you his numbers along with other council members if you don't already had them.
    This law is far from new, it has just been amended. They have added penalties such as reimbursement of attorney and expert witness fees, the removal of immunity granted by the state constitution, and allows them to be charged with official misconduct in the 1st or 2nd degree. Which most likely it would be 1st degree do to the situations of officials refusing to recognize rights granted by law and the constitution. It also has much more detail when it names different agencies and such that are affected by the statute.

    We have always had firearm preemption, but now we have one of the strongest statutes in the country. With it, the law, AG opinions, and the references from KLC, they can't act like they are not violating the law and constitution any longer.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Make sure you inform him that there are several people watching this issue closely. That if he does not motion for this ordinance to be removed, and replaced with one that does not violate the law (if they seem fit and I'm sure they will), then people will be showing up at council meetings, and if not changed, filing a civil suit against the mayor, attorney, and council. Not necessarily all of them, but whosoever refuses to remove the illegal ordinance will be named.

    And that if they try and arrest or refuse entry to anyone who openly carries at their commission meetings, it will just make their problems much worse. Whatever you do be nice and courteous, which being as he is your uncle I'm sure that will not be a problem. And thank you for being the spear head in Morehead. It would be nice if they change this without issue, but I do not see that happening. Hopefully I am wrong.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 04-05-2012 at 12:15 AM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Make sure you inform him that there are several people watching this issue closely. That if he does not motion for this ordinance to be removed, and replaced with one that does not violate the law (if they seem fit and I'm sure they will), then people will be showing up at council meetings, and if not changed, filing a civil suit against the mayor, attorney, and council. Not necessarily all of them, but whosoever refuses to remove the illegal ordinance will be named.

    And that if they try and arrest or refuse entry to anyone who openly carries at their commission meetings, it will just make their problems much worse. Whatever you do be nice and courteous, which being as he is your uncle I'm sure that will not be a problem. And thank you for being the spear head in Morehead. It would be nice if they change this without issue, but I do not see that happening. Hopefully I am wrong.
    I wouldn't exactly call myself the "spear head" in Morehead, it just helps to have family with political pull. I do want you all to realize though, that he is family and I will personally not press the issue with him, I will lay the material out before him and explain things to the best of my ability and if he wants me to shut up I will. At that point I will give you all his numbers and I continue my quest with other members, but I do not want to risk the relationship I have with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgm2414 View Post
    I wouldn't exactly call myself the "spear head" in Morehead, it just helps to have family with political pull. I do want you all to realize though, that he is family and I will personally not press the issue with him, I will lay the material out before him and explain things to the best of my ability and if he wants me to shut up I will. At that point I will give you all his numbers and I continue my quest with other members, but I do not want to risk the relationship I have with him.
    I have all the numbers. I'm thinking of going down after I
    Visit olive hill since I will be so close. You are the first to bring this to attention, and that is a good thing.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgm2414 View Post
    I do want you all to realize though, that he is family and I will personally not press the issue with him, I will lay the material out before him and explain things to the best of my ability and if he wants me to shut up I will. At that point I will give you all his numbers and I continue my quest with other members, but I do not want to risk the relationship I have with him.
    I see nothing wrong with this. I am from a close family too and we definitely would not want to do anything that is potentially detrimental to each other.

    That being said, your uncle is not in a lot of people's family who wish the government to obey the rules. I will kindly point out that he is in the wrong if he tries to block the transition to a legal ordinance or to totally rid Morehead of any ordinance to carry. And tell him there is very little you can do to stop what might be coming if he is in the wrong.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    I see nothing wrong with this. I am from a close family too and we definitely would not want to do anything that is potentially detrimental to each other.

    That being said, your uncle is not in a lot of people's family who wish the government to obey the rules. I will kindly point out that he is in the wrong if he tries to block the transition to a legal ordinance or to totally rid Morehead of any ordinance to carry. And tell him there is very little you can do to stop what might be coming if he is in the wrong.
    Most definately, I have no problem with you or anyone else calling him or any other member out, actually it would be welcome. Morehead is an absolute police state period, our council members are corrupt, and Morehead is probably the poster child of a corrupt city. Things have gone as far to give University Police county wide jurisdiction, which in my opinion has to stop. Thanks for all that you guys are doing.

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    Paducah is still not compliant with state law. Ordinance 30-3 is the violation. When I pressed about this before the City Manager said that the City Attorney advised him that the law was allowed per KY law.
    Here is a link. http://library.municode.com/index.as...ename=Kentucky
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    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    Paducah is still not compliant with state law. Ordinance 30-3 is the violation. When I pressed about this before the City Manager said that the City Attorney advised him that the law was allowed per KY law.
    Here is a link. http://library.municode.com/index.as...ename=Kentucky
    I do think that you are correct. I will add it to the list. Thanks for the help.
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    It is certainly a violation, a violation of KRS 65.870 and 237.104.

    Is this the only ordinance they have that is in violation? I will get all the information and get in contact with them, unless someone is closer who could do so?
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 04-05-2012 at 09:01 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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