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List of Counties/Cities in violation of KRS 65.870

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
He threatened to arrest me. I did not have the privilege of finding him after I was escorted out until KYGlockster and I was forced to the sheriff department. The County Attorney Mike Hogan ordered us to follow him to the sheriff department where he could press charges against us. There was where he was yelling at us. Neither the Sheriff or the CA would accept our documentation of the laws. Apparently they already knew what we had and would not accept that Kentucky Law trump a county ordinance.

Today I bought a microphone for my Ipod and an password protected recorder app. I will try to get to the courthouse tomorrow to get copies of this ordinance and I will record the whole time. Unfortunately I do think that I will not be carrying a firearm as I have been threatened detainment if I do.

I think I am going to go to the Judge Executive's office and ask him to up this issue on the agenda for the next fiscal court meeting. The meeting is the third monday every month. The next one should be the 21st of May, I would encourage everyone to show up.

Edit: Also, I really do appreciate all the advice and support. This is mostly about my rights and rights of people going into the lawrence county courthouse. This effects most of you very little. Yet I feel that I have support from all of you.
 
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KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
I believe the language that I emphasised in your post is from AGO 93-71. AGO 93-71 was about a city of the first class (Louisville) regulating firearms by requiring residents to register their firearms with the city and report any firearm sales. Of course, the answer was, "no, you can't". Very selective reading. Again, this is intentional obfuscation. What does he say will happen if you do return to a CITY building while armed?

This is a county building, (county courthouse with public offices), and we both were threatened with arrest. He claims as long as this ordinance is on the books, he can arrest us for violation! Again, he certainly does not know the law very well, and I intend to inform the voters of Lawrence co. of this fact.
 
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Cgm2414

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
49
Location
Morehead, KY
So I spoke to my uncle about the cc ordinance in Morehead, he said he didnt realize the law had been ammended. He seemed concerned about it and willing to bring it before the council, so get your political guns loaded and have at em boys.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
So I spoke to my uncle about the cc ordinance in Morehead, he said he didnt realize the law had been ammended. He seemed concerned about it and willing to bring it before the council, so get your political guns loaded and have at em boys.

The law was amended.....but the same law has revoked their right to govern firearms since '75 I think? I figure the new penalties will make every local govt. decide to change these ordinances once they realize someone is watching. Wonder what guys like gutshot who have been doing this for tens of years will do when there isn't anymore to do? Haha, j/k, the fight will never be over, 220 years of history has proven that!
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
I received this email from the mayor of Owingsville today. If you recall, I spoke with him Monday (4/9) about the signs he planned on posting at city hall. Earl is the city attorney and of course Gary is the mayor. I still dont think they understand that banning concealed only applies to buildings themselves and not open city property. But I dont feel that they will even push banning concealed. I would guess (but could be wrong) that this issue is closed. Am I curious, what "action to get that bill amended to include both in the future" is he speaking of?



Chris,

I heard back from Earl and it is what we thought the other day. Concealed firearms can be banned on city owned property but not openly carried firearms. He said there is action to get that bill amended to include both in the future but nothing at this time. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. We never stop learning because everything always keeps changing around us.

Have a good day!

Gary
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
I think he is talking about there is plans to ban both open carry and concealed carrying in the future. I would kindly point out that they do have the authority to ban concealed carry in their buildings but not regulate open carry at all. Also, some information that may be helpful. Inform him that concealed carry is already prohibited in legislative meetings so banning concealed carry will do very little. Urge him to try to abolish the whole thing, not to just amend it to the correct language. He should know that carrying concealed does not hold ANY weight of law if you can legally carry, just not concealed. All they can do is bar you from entering you or eject you. Continue to tell him that since this is nothing anyways he can come out looking 2A/rights as a whole friendly just by abolish this little ordinance.


I don't understand what these people think they're doing. "For the safety of everyone" is usually their stated motive. Because my shirt covering my firearm makes in more deadly than having it in plain view. Those wishing to harm anyone would think twice if they could be asked to leave a meeting. You understanding what I am saying? The penalties are already a slap on the wrist, an (attempted) murder or whatever will mean very little to any disgruntle citizen.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
I would inform him "concealed firearms" can Be banned "inside buildings" and nowhere else! He seems to believe they can ban concealed firearms on all city property and that is incorrect. I would also inform him that we just had firearm preemption strongly strengthened with near unanimous support in the senate and house, and that if there was a bill introduced to ban OC on property, that it would never pass, and would not pass constitutional muster.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
I think he is talking about there is plans to ban both open carry and concealed carrying in the future. I would kindly point out that they do have the authority to ban concealed carry in their buildings but not regulate open carry at all. Also, some information that may be helpful. Inform him that concealed carry is already prohibited in legislative meetings so banning concealed carry will do very little. Urge him to try to abolish the whole thing, not to just amend it to the correct language. He should know that carrying concealed does not hold ANY weight of law if you can legally carry, just not concealed. All they can do is bar you from entering you or eject you. Continue to tell him that since this is nothing anyways he can come out looking 2A/rights as a whole friendly just by abolish this little ordinance.


I don't understand what these people think they're doing. "For the safety of everyone" is usually their stated motive. Because my shirt covering my firearm makes in more deadly than having it in plain view. Those wishing to harm anyone would think twice if they could be asked to leave a meeting. You understanding what I am saying? The penalties are already a slap on the wrist, an (attempted) murder or whatever will mean very little to any disgruntle citizen.

Thats where my case is a little different from yours. There is no actual ordiance. He just bought some "no guns allowed" signs and planned to put them up. One of the signs is at city hall in a closet away from public view. The other is a the police dept. and its not actually "mounted". It is proped up on some in house mailboxes inside of the PD. It is the first thing you see when you walk in. Not sure if it's even legal to display it like that. But I will check back later to see if they have removed it. As far as the CC....I'll probably wait to pursue that until/if they try to do a ban on CC. He made the comment that one reason that he wanted to ban OC in city hall is to eliminate "intimidation". I explained to him that a big burly man with a hateful look on his face could be intimidating, but actually be as harmless as can be. I also pointed out that criminals with intent to murder do not OC and do NOT care what a sign says. We discussed if a person had it on his mind to come shoot up city hall that the "no guns allowed" would only disarm good people that could defend themselves or others if a situation like this did happen. I think he sees now that if you think these signs will keep a gun weilding nut job from breaking the law, then you have a strong case of false security. You say CC is already prohibited in legislative meetings...educate me...is a city meeting considered a "legislative meeting?" And to KYGlockster...That was kinda confusing me about "plans in the future" Considering HB 500 kicks off in July, I didnt understand why another law would be coming in right behind that one that was completly different. So you think the current laws will stand for a long time?
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
KRS 237.110(16)(d) Any meeting of the governing body of a county, municipality, or special district; or any meeting of the General Assembly or a committee of the General Assembly, except that nothing in this section shall preclude a member of the body, holding a concealed deadly weapon license, from carrying a concealed deadly weapon at a meeting of the body of which he or she is a member;

I guess that is what I should have said.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
We have had total state preemption of firearm regulation for over 30 years, and if you noticed by the votes on HB500, (over 70 co-sponsors and a 88-8 vote in the house, and 34-2 vote in the senate), firearm preemption is not going anywhere, and the legislature has our interests in mind.

When these people try saying they want to ban OC because it intimidates, or because of safety, always go back to the same single issue: It is against the law to do so! Doesn't matter what their "feelings" are, it is the LAW.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
KRS 237.110(16)(d) Any meeting of the governing body of a county, municipality, or special district; or any meeting of the General Assembly or a committee of the General Assembly, except that nothing in this section shall preclude a member of the body, holding a concealed deadly weapon license, from carrying a concealed deadly weapon at a meeting of the body of which he or she is a member;

I guess that is what I should have said.[/QUOTE

Forgive my stupidy...but still a little confused. Is this saying that if an official has a CC license then he or she can CC at these meetings? And as far as a city council meeting.... If they do NOT have a "no concealed weapons" sign posted can you CC in a city council meeting or is there a law that bans this with or without a sign?
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
We have had total state preemption of firearm regulation for over 30 years, and if you noticed by the votes on HB500, (over 70 co-sponsors and a 88-8 vote in the house, and 34-2 vote in the senate), firearm preemption is not going anywhere, and the legislature has our interests in mind.

When these people try saying they want to ban OC because it intimidates, or because of safety, always go back to the same single issue: It is against the law to do so! Doesn't matter what their "feelings" are, it is the LAW.

I agree...the laws the law if you like it or not. Is there a website you go to to get your stats like "votes on HB500, (over 70 co-sponsors and a 88-8 vote in the house, and 34-2 vote in the senate?" I feel I need to be more political than I have been in the past. To be honest I have never really put much thought into polictics but I want to back the pro 2A canidates. Just trying to learn...........
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
That is very good news. You are probably right, a lot of places lose there desire to ban CC when they find out they can't ban OC. What is the sense of it? You have done a great job and it sounds like you have some reasonable public officials that just got started on something they did not understand. That action to amend the law does not exist and even if it did, it won't happen. There is no support for such a measure in either chamber of the General Assembly. The General Assembly has adjourned for the year. They will reconvene in January 2013. I have it on very good authority that the Ky League of Cities does not want to take on that fight and there is little support for it on their Executive Board. Does he know that the city can only ban CC in buildings? Educate him some more if he does not.

Great info. I know that CC can only be banned from city buildings, but to be honest I probably wont push anymore unless they try to ban CC on ALL city property (I dont look for them to try to ban s**t at this point). I feel like slow and easy will win this race better than "hit em with all ya got" And yes he was pleasant and offered no resistance. He said he simply didnt know and that they would respect the law. As far as the "future action"...I'm like you an that issue...not worried. Glad I could be a voice for gun rights... Honestly til a few weeks back I never really thought about it. I guess I just assumed KY had great gun laws because we rocked or something..Never occured to me that people like us (Yeah I'm new and havent done much, but I love saying "us"" get out there and fight to keep those rights and to make our laws better.. This site is great and I'm so glad I found it. I may not have fought a huge battle and it may have been an easy win...but what the hell...I'll take that win...
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
You are right! We all need to be more political or we will lose our gun rights and all other rights. The other side is working every day, as you are finding out.


List of Cosponsors:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/12RS/HB500.htm

Record of votes in both House and Senate:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/12RS/HB500/vote_history.pdf

Unfortunately, you don't get to vote for or against anyone except in your district. Unless you live in Jefferson or Fayette County you can't kick any of them out of office. Only legislators from those two counties voted against HB 500. The rest of the state was firmly behind it
.

I'm ashamed to admit it but I dont know squat about state legislation...But I'm eager to learn. When my vote does count I want it to go to a person that is on our side. Like I've said before, I'm a rookie but dying to learn. Thank all of you for all the great info and advice.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
You may be right. Sometimes its best to take the win and retire. It's your home, your battle and your victory and it is well deserved. You might just casually mention it sometime in a conversation, he might look it up, like he did for this and then it would never be a fight you need to fight. Its your choice.

I may do that. I just dont want to push to hard and come across like I'm trying to strong arm him. But I will mention it in casual conversation. Just proud to be a part of it all....
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
Most of us assume that there is just nothing we can do and the law will move as it does, no matter what. I have found out that is just not true. Our legislators have been very supportive of this, most of them were completely unaware this was a problem until a few of us started talking to them. The Ky League of Cities was the same way and has been a great help with this, much more than I ever dreamed they would be. As a matter of fact, yesterday a man at KLC gave me the names of people to talk to at KACO (Ky. Association of Counties) to help 09jissac with his problem in Lawrence Co. They didn't have to do that, they are helping us because they agree with us. We need to push this everywhere, everyday. The more we complain and explain the problems we have, the more help we will get next year. We need to educate our legislators about the problems as much as we need to educated our public officials about the law. Don't worry about drawing too much attention to this and causing your local officials to complain. They are already doing that and our side needs to be heard. State legislators aren't buying their story.

Blows my mind that KLC and KACO backs us!!! And I'm glad that our legislators are supportive of us. Just so many states gun laws are F'ed up......I just dont ever want KY to be one of those states.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
Forgive my stupidy...but still a little confused. Is this saying that if an official has a CC license then he or she can CC at these meetings? And as far as a city council meeting.... If they do NOT have a "no concealed weapons" sign posted can you CC in a city council meeting or is there a law that bans this with or without a sign?

The members of a governing body can CC if they have a CDWL. But most others cannot CC legally into a meeting.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
I found it, thanks. That is quite some ordinance. I was mistaken before, I've never seen anything like that. That is so contrived and twisted it has to be intentionally written to confuse people and, knowingly, violate the law. This has to be deliberate, no one is that stupid. They didn't even get the right year that HB 40 was passed. It was 1996 not 1995. If they wrote this ordinance in '96, they should have known better. If you can scan it, please do. I may be on to something in the way of help and I'll need it.

I am sorry for the delay Gutshot. I just now found this post, I must have skipped over it.

I have them scanned but it says they are too big to upload.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
Yes, its hard to keep up with them all. Post are "Fast and Furious" in this thread, I sent you a PM.

I sent you an email containing the ordinance.

By fast and furious? Are you implying that we are giving the post to people illegally to support our political agenda? I think that was the 1st joke I have ever seen you make so I am leery of jumping to that conclusion.

:rolleyes:
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
If you recall I recently went to the Owingsville mayor about the illegal gun signs he planned to post. I noticed that one is still "posted" (sitting on top of some file cabinets, leaning against the wall. Its the first thing you see) in the police dept. I think I have read here that you can OC in a police station but just wanted to make sure before I emailed the mayor asking about the remaining sign.
 
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