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List of Counties/Cities in violation of KRS 65.870

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
There will be more posted. I have had my rights violated by the county attorney, Mike Hogan, and the sheriff of Lawrence County, Garrett Roberts. I dare not say much on this forum because Mike is already VERY pissed off because of previous post they found on here. I deleted some of my post to keep this from turning into a larger **** storm. I am going to get it touch with an attorney.

KY may post a recording of our "talk"- We may call it "Hogan's Yelling Match" as it would be appropriated.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
There will be more posted. I have had my rights violated by the county attorney, Mike Hogan, and the sheriff of Lawrence County, Garrett Roberts. I dare not say much on this forum because Mike is already VERY pissed off because of previous post they found on here. I deleted some of my post to keep this from turning into a larger **** storm. I am going to get it touch with an attorney.

KY may post a recording of our "talk"- We may call it "Hogan's Yelling Match" as it would be appropriated.

Can you explain to me what the sheriff meant when we mentioned HB 161 I think it was. I would like to know what he was talking about. You can PM me if you like. I have a meeting with the owingsville amyor in 12 minutes so I gotta go for now..But I would like to learn more about your incident....And more so I would like to know what in the hell HB 161 was???
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
Try SB 161, Glockster mentioned something about it was an SB bill. He said it had something to do with open carry. I would call it irrelevant to anything at this point. We already have 65.870, 237.110, 237.115, AGO opinion 96-40, HB 500 to take effect soon, and other things.

I was ejected out of a OPEN meeting for violating an illegal ordinance that they have been TOLD is illegal. I was going to try to fix this with them.
I was LIED to by public officials.
I was threatened arrest for OCing in the sheriff dept.
I was threatened arrest for OCing in the courthouse (not part of the court rooms or even the court annex)
I was TOLD not to come back to the courthouse with my firearm.
I was talked to like a child.
I was even ACCUSED of libel.

I feel like my rights were trampled on by public officials with NO authority to govern me in that way. If I was in violations of anything legal I would have been arrested and tried. Hogan was that visibly irate. I feel that this shows corruption in Lawrence county.

Also, I wish you all of luck with your endeavors. I hope they go better than ours.
 
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Comm

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
138
Location
Nicholasville, KY
What did the bill say? the Sheriff seemed to think it was important because he brought it up. How does this failing affect KRS 65.870 and HB 500?

OK SB 161 didn't pass also, but here is the summary of that bill

Amend KRS 65.870 which limits cities and counties from having local firearms ordinances to expand the units of government and public agencies covered, expand limitations on local action, and provide that parties may sue to enjoin violations.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
Try SB 161, Glockster mentioned something about it was an SB bill. He said it had something to do with open carry. I would call it irrelevant to anything at this point. We already have 65.870, 237.110, 237.115, AGO opinion 96-40, HB 500 to take effect soon, and other things.

I was ejected out of a OPEN meeting for violating an illegal ordinance that they have been TOLD is illegal. I was going to try to fix this with them.
I was LIED to by public officials.
I was threatened arrest for OCing in the sheriff dept.
I was threatened arrest for OCing in the courthouse (not part of the court rooms or even the court annex)
I was TOLD not to come back to the courthouse with my firearm.
I was talked to like a child.
I was even ACCUSED of libel.

I feel like my rights were trampled on by public officials with NO authority to govern me in that way. If I was in violations of anything legal I would have been arrested and tried. Hogan was that visibly irate. I feel that this shows corruption in Lawrenc

Also, I wish you all of luck with your endeavors. I hope they go better than ours.

I wanted to give an update on the city of Owingsville. I just left a meeting with the mayor over KRS 65.780, HB 500, Letter from the KLC as well as their own ordiances. He seemed interested to learn and was eager to ask question. Very polite in the meeting and didnt take a hard stance. He got hung up a few times because his paperwork addressed concealed weapons in city buildings but quickly realized that open carry and concealed carry are two different things and are handled differently. He stated that he wasnt anti-gun but just "wanted to do what was right". He thanked me time after time for bringing this to his attention and stated that he would have the city attorney look into it even though he stated "its in plain english and very clear" He even stopped me on my way out the door and got my Email address so he could send me the attorney response. Hope the attorney can read and understand as well as the mayor seemed to. As far as 09jisaac, sorry you got treated that way. But I do respect that you are continuing the good fight and hope you dont back down. I hope you find legal relief and all the support that you will need. Sorry that you're the one taking the beating right now but I'm so glad to see our rights are being stood up for.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
I have started a new thread on this issue, if anyone wishes to post about it there. Wait until I post the audio, everyone's jaw will drop!
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
As far as 09jisaac, sorry you got treated that way. But I do respect that you are continuing the good fight and hope you dont back down. I hope you find legal relief and all the support that you will need. Sorry that you're the one taking the beating right now but I'm so glad to see our rights are being stood up for.

It wasn't just me, KYGlockster was there too. And he doesn't have much much of a dog in this fight. He was doing it as a favor to me.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
I just found out that he was there too. I support you both. Wish there were more I could do to help you both with this battle.

Are you an attorney by any chance? Just kidding. Do not worry too much about our battle. You, too, are assisting in restoring rights. It is just two battles of the same war. I do not like how we can be tried with ANY law but government officials are not even held to their own laws.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
Are you an attorney by any chance? Just kidding. Do not worry too much about our battle. You, too, are assisting in restoring rights. It is just two battles of the same war. I do not like how we can be tried with ANY law but government officials are not even held to their own laws.

I wish I were...well..sorta.. You and KyGlockster kind of gave me survivers guilt..haha.. I was so excited to post that I changed the mayors mind and made a difference, and you two were nearly sent to the elctric chair..
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
Don't count on it until it happens. We thought we had the judge executive on our side (not saying we don't still) but the sheriff and CA are sticking to enforcing this illegal ordinance.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?101015-New-Ammunition-to-Fight-Cities-Preemption-Violations/page2&highlight=Lawrence+County

I already posted it but this is a reminder. It was an ordinance that started out good "General assembly gives us the authority ban concealed carry in our buildings" then it goes on to prohibit all "deadly weapons" on their "premises". I took this to mean all firearms whether "concealed or otherwise" (actual text I think) in their buildings and on their grounds. It was passed in '96 and the section who voted for it was left blank. I will go back and get another copy of it. It says who was on the fiscal court at the time. I know that Osborn wasn't in office.

It is 96-006, I found it in the Circuit Clerks file room.
 
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self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
Don't count on it until it happens. We thought we had the judge executive on our side (not saying we don't still) but the sheriff and CA are sticking to enforcing this illegal ordinance.

True. The city attorney may fill the mayors head with all kinds of "this dont apply to us because....." I'm still waiting on the email from the city attorney to see just what his take on this is. But I think KRS page of "do's and dont's" really got his attention. Guess time will tell.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
Thanks for that info. The minutes of the Fiscal Court meeting will be available from the county clerks office, the vote must have been recorded in those minutes. If you are interested, you can get those minutes. I still can't find the ordinance anywhere, but it doesn't really matter, that wording sounds familiar, I've heard it before. Its just best to have the exact wording to show people when they ask, "Well, what are they doing that is illegal? What does their ordinance say, exactly?" From what you say it sounds very similar to Bardstown's ordinance and similar to Pikeville's original ordinance. Can you get a copy of it?

I had a copy of it but it was misplaced on KYGlockster and my 1st visit. I don't know where it ended up. But I can get plenty of copies of it. I was going to stop and get some copies of it anyways. If you want I can scan it and send it to you via email or whatever.

It was post #44 in the link I just sent.
 

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
Try SB 161, Glockster mentioned something about it was an SB bill. He said it had something to do with open carry. I would call it irrelevant to anything at this point. We already have 65.870, 237.110, 237.115, AGO opinion 96-40, HB 500 to take effect soon, and other things.

I was ejected out of a OPEN meeting for violating an illegal ordinance that they have been TOLD is illegal. I was going to try to fix this with them.
I was LIED to by public officials.
I was threatened arrest for OCing in the sheriff dept.
I was threatened arrest for OCing in the courthouse (not part of the court rooms or even the court annex)
I was TOLD not to come back to the courthouse with my firearm.
I was talked to like a child.
I was even ACCUSED of libel.

I feel like my rights were trampled on by public officials with NO authority to govern me in that way. If I was in violations of anything legal I would have been arrested and tried. Hogan was that visibly irate. I feel that this shows corruption in Lawrence county.

Also, I wish you all of luck with your endeavors. I hope they go better than ours.

I was reading HB 500 and changes to 65.870 and it appears in order to file a lawsuit you will have to show harm. I do not know if the harm 09jisaac received by being removed from an open meeting can be used, because it happened before the bill was in effect. I believe Ex Post Facto would shield them in this event. If it can not be used, you will have to attend another meeting, be denied admittance, then you will be able to establish harm. Your standing to file the suit will be that you are a Kentucky citizen with the right to attend any public meeting and able to do so while open carrying in accordance with Commonwealths Constitution, and your ability to exercise your right was taken by a law enforcement officer while under the color of authority. With fees and expert witness testimony available for recovery, and that pesky 42USC1983 hanging over their head, I cannot believe you will not persuade them to repair the ordinance. I am impressed with your hard work.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY


I was reading HB 500 and changes to 65.870 and it appears in order to file a lawsuit you will have to show harm. I do not know if the harm 09jisaac received by being removed from an open meeting can be used, because it happened before the bill was in effect. I believe Ex Post Facto would shield them in this event. If it can not be used, you will have to attend another meeting, be denied admittance, then you will be able to establish harm. Your standing to file the suit will be that you are a Kentucky citizen with the right to attend any public meeting and able to do so while open carrying in accordance with Commonwealths Constitution, and your ability to exercise your right was taken by a law enforcement officer while under the color of authority. With fees and expert witness testimony available for recovery, and that pesky 42USC1983 hanging over their head, I cannot believe you will not persuade them to repair the ordinance. I am impressed with your hard work.

So are you saying that if HB 500 was already in effet this could be a diffrent story? HB 500 goes into effect in july, correct?
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
I do not think I will have any more trouble fixing the ordinance, but until then I am being denied my right to carry a firearm in the offices in the court. I was even prohibited from carrying, openly, into the sheriff department. All this bothers me, but I do think I have plenty of grounds for official misconduct even without this.

The Sheriff, by his own admission (recorded I think) received all the information that KYglockster gave to the Judge Executive. This was more than enough to prove that the ordinance used against me was highly illegal. His reasoning for enforcing it as legal was a single paragraph in an Attorney General opinion, "Home rule" (99-10 I think). This was VERY selective reading. "Home Rule" according to that opinion "(1) A city may exercise any power and perform any function within its boundaries, in-cluding the power of eminent domain in accordance with the provisions of the Eminent Domain Act of Kentucky, that is in furtherance of a public purpose of the city and not in conflict with a constitutional provision or statute."

This was taken straight from the opinion I have reason to believe he cited. He showed it to me but it was just a glimpse.

The county Attorney thinks that because he is an elected official if he "tells" you to do something you better follow. He seems to forget that he is a public servant, not a public master. He gets ALL his official authority from the people through the general assembly. He has no authority to command anything not specifically granted to him. Like telling me I cannot carry in the courthouse anymore.
 

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
So are you saying that if HB 500 was already in effet this could be a diffrent story? HB 500 goes into effect in july, correct?

Yes it would be different. The harm was committed when removed from the meeting, when no crime had been committed. Nothing in our constitution is more sacred than our ability to face our elected officials and air a grievance. But as noted, in July, when HB 500 rewrites KRS 65.870, then there will be teeth that will leave a mark when laws concerning the carrying of firearms, in property owned by the Commonwealth or municipalaties, are violated.
 
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