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Thread: Professor Eugene Volokh, Bans on Carrying Within One Thousand Feet of a School.

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Professor Eugene Volokh, Bans on Carrying Within One Thousand Feet of a School.

    http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/2am.pdf 647 KB 107 pages

    "Conclusion ... But at least it would be a good start ... to ask the right questions."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Volokh
    Bans on Carrying Within One Thousand Feet of a School

    The federal Gun-Free School Zones Act bans gun possession, except on private property, within one thousand feet of any school.[345] The Act exempts possession by those with a state gun license,[346] but many states allow unlicensed open carry,[347] Alaska and Vermont allow unlicensed concealed carry,[348] many states don’t give someone an option to get a gun possession license, and many more don’t allow 18-to-20-year-olds to get concealed carry licenses.[349] In these states, gun carrying on public streets and sidewalks within one thousand feet of a school is effectively barred by federal law.[350]

    California and Wisconsin laws likewise prohibit open carrying within one thousand feet of a school, even when the gun is unloaded.[351] (Outside those zones, California law generally allows unloaded open carry,[352] and Wisconsin law generally allows even loaded open carry.[353]) Louisiana law in effect prohibits carrying by 18-to-20-year-olds within one thousand feet of a school or university, except in a car, and provides that “[l]ack of knowledge that the prohibited act occurred . . . within one thousand feet of school property shall not be a defense.”[354] In Aurora (Illinois), carrying of firearms, stun guns, and even pepper spray is banned within one thousand feet of a school or university.[355]

    These school zone statutes substantially burden people’s ability to defend themselves. Many people live and work within one thousand feet of schools, and may need to defend themselves in that area even if they never set foot on school property. I know of no longstanding tradition of treating several blocks around a school as a “sensitive place[ ]” in which people are stripped of their right to keep and bear arms in self-defense, including at night when selfdefense is most necessary and school is not even in session. And if a reducing danger argument is inadequate to justify gun bans on public streets generally (see Part II.C.1), it’s hard to see how it would be adequate to justify gun bans on public streets within several blocks of a school.[Footnotes in the original]

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    Mr. Volokh is mistaken about Louisiana law. He states "Louisiana law in effect prohibits carrying by 18-to-20-year-olds within one thousand feet of a school or university..."

    I believe here he refers to the CC permit which cannot be obtained until the age of 21. However, the Louisiana gun free school zone law provides an exception to constitutionally protected activity. Open carry is constitutionally protected in this state. 19 to 20 yr olds have the right to OC in a state gun free school zone.

    It's good that people are still looking at getting rid of this ridiculous unconstitutional law.

  3. #3
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Did you note the effect of the date?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Did you note the effect of the date?
    ???

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Georg, the federal law states that possession of a gun within 1000' of a school is illegal unless you have a state issued carry license. If you cannot get a state license until you are 21 then 18-20 yr olds are effectively denied the right to possess a firearm within 1000' of a school.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Georg, the federal law states that possession of a gun within 1000' of a school is illegal unless you have a state issued carry license. If you cannot get a state license until you are 21 then 18-20 yr olds are effectively denied the right to possess a firearm within 1000' of a school.
    That's correct if you consider the totality of state and fed law. It appears to me that the author was speaking of the state law only in the quote. That's what I was pointing out.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Georg, the federal law states that possession of a gun within 1000' of a school is illegal unless you have a state issued carry license. If you cannot get a state license until you are 21 then 18-20 yr olds are effectively denied the right to possess a firearm within 1000' of a school.
    Unconstitutional laws, especially those which have already been declared as such, don't deny anybody the right to do anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Unconstitutional laws, especially those which have already been declared as such, don't deny anybody the right to do anything.
    NO, but anybody wishing to exercise their right in spite of the law must be ready for the fight.

  9. #9
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Georg, the federal law states that possession of a gun within 1000' of a school is illegal unless you have a state issued carry license. If you cannot get a state license until you are 21 then 18-20 yr olds are effectively denied the right to possess a firearm within 1000' of a school.
    An armed citizen passing through the GFSZ on the public highway, and not qualifying for one of the exceptions in federal law and/or state statute, is subject to the enforcement actions. There is not an exception for the public highway.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    NO, but anybody wishing to exercise their right in spite of the law must be ready for the fight.
    About a year ago, a man was arrested for open carrying near a school zone in Virginia. The charges were dropped, as it isn't against state law. Somehow, the Feds didn't swoop in to take up the slack. I wonder why?

  11. #11
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    About a year ago, a man was arrested for open carrying near a school zone in Virginia. The charges were dropped, as it isn't against state law. Somehow, the Feds didn't swoop in to take up the slack. I wonder why?
    So now the building, property, zone and near-zone are prohibited?

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    So now the building, property, zone and near-zone are prohibited?
    No, that was just a case of overzealous police, as proved by the fact that the man wasn't actually in violation of any law, and charges were dropped.

    You don't need any laws at all for police to arrest you for not breaking them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    About a year ago, a man was arrested for open carrying near a school zone in Virginia. The charges were dropped, as it isn't against state law. Somehow, the Feds didn't swoop in to take up the slack. I wonder why?
    In that case, was a jury convened? Jeopardy may have attached.

    We have a case here in La. of a man arrested for a state violation of the GFSZ law. We'll see if the Feds get involved with this as well.

  14. #14
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    No, that was just a case of overzealous police, as proved by the fact that the man wasn't actually in violation of any law, and charges were dropped. You don't need any laws at all for police to arrest you for not breaking them.
    Hence, "You may beat the rap but you will not beat the ride."

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    In that case, was a jury convened? Jeopardy may have attached.

    We have a case here in La. of a man arrested for a state violation of the GFSZ law. We'll see if the Feds get involved with this as well.
    It was nolle pros'ed, so no jeopardy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Hence, "You may beat the rap but you will not beat the ride."
    Very true. Although, of course, police don't need laws to do this. It's simple criminal aggression.

    Nowadays, the only recourse is lawsuit, which I am rather perturbed was not brought in the VA case. Some people are so cowed they feel relieved when the charges against them for not breaking the law are dropped, rather than their vindication feeding their rightful anger.

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