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Thread: Bateman v. Perdue (NC Emergency Powers Ban) struck down

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Bateman v. Perdue (NC Emergency Powers Ban) struck down

    Victory in North Carolina! Federal court strikes down state of emergency gun ban. http://t.co/G7WESa74

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    http://saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=397

    SAF VICTORY STRIKES DOWN NORTH CAROLINA EMERGENCY POWERS GUN BAN
    For Immediate Release: 3/29/2012

    BELLEVUE, WA – A federal district court judge in North Carolina has just struck down that state’s emergency power to impose a ban on firearms and ammunition outside the home during a declared emergency, ruling that the provision violates the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

    The case, Bateman v. Purdue, was brought by the Second Amendment Foundation, Grass Roots North Carolina FFE and three individual plaintiffs. Defendants in the case were Gov. Beverly Purdue and Reuben F. Young, secretary of the state’s Department of Crime Control and Public Safety, in their official capacities.

    In his opinion, Judge Malcolm J. Howard, senior United States district judge for the Eastern District of North Carolina, wrote, “…the court finds that the statutes at issue here are subject to strict scrutiny…While the bans imposed pursuant to these statutes may be limited in duration, it cannot be overlooked that the statutes strip peaceable, law abiding citizens of the right to arm themselves in defense of hearth and home, striking at the very core of the Second Amendment.”

    “When SAF attorney Alan Gura won the Heller case at the Supreme Court,” noted SAF Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb, “the gun ban crowd said that we were a ‘one-trick-pony’ and that we would never knock out another gun law. Well, SAF has now knocked out gun laws in Maryland, Illinois and North Carolina.

    “We filed this lawsuit on the day we won the McDonald case against Chicago,” he added, “extending the Second Amendment to all 50 states. This was part of our strategy of winning firearms freedoms one lawsuit at a time.”

    Gottlieb pointed to language in Judge Howard’s ruling that solidifies the Second Amendment’s reach outside the home. The judge noted that the Supreme Court in Heller noted that the right to keep and bear arms “was valued not only for preserving the militia, but ‘more important(ly) for self-defense and hunting.”

    “Therefore,” Judge Malcolm wrote, “the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms ‘is not strictly limited to the home environment but extends in some form to wherever those activities or needs occur."

    “Under the laws at issue here, citizens are prohibited from engaging, outside their home, in any activities secured by the Second Amendment,” Judge Malcolm wrote. They may not carry defensive weapons outside the home, hunt or engage in firearm related sporting activities. Additionally, although the statutes do not directly regulate the possession of firearms within the home, they effectively prohibit law abiding citizens from purchasing and transporting to their homes firearms and ammunition needed for self-defense. As such, these laws burden conduct protected by the Second Amendment.”

    The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation's oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control. In addition to the landmark McDonald v. Chicago Supreme Court Case, SAF has previously funded successful firearms-related suits against the cities of Los Angeles; New Haven, CT; New Orleans; Chicago and San Francisco on behalf of American gun owners, a lawsuit against the cities suing gun makers and numerous amicus briefs holding the Second Amendment as an individual right.

    -END-

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    Bellevue beats another gun law on 2A grounds

    A federal judge in North Carolina today struck down that state’s emergency powers ability to ban firearms and ammunition outside the home during a declared emergency in a case filed by Bellevue’s Second Amendment Foundation, and it should send a signal to Washington State, where a similar emergency power exists.

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...-on-2a-grounds

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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    So is this now the law of the land right now or do we have to wait for the appeals courts to uphold it? Also, does this ruling only apply to the "state of emergency" restrictions or are we still subject to prosecution if we are caught up in a riot while carrying?

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    Big win today. Paul and GRNC has really been on a roll lately. He couldn't do it without our support though. I urge everyone to join Grass Roots NC and make your voice be heard. Don't sit back and expect the next person to fight for your rights. Legal carriers (CC and OC) are already the minority.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 03-29-2012 at 08:37 PM.

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    Very nice!

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    My understanding dmatting...very specific narrow scope aimmed only on declared emergencies statutes...

    wabbit

    ps: really nc-tarheel GRNC is the sole contributor to this overturn of a bad statute and i suppose GRNC is also singularly responsible for the Gov to not seek re-election?
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 03-30-2012 at 11:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    My understanding dmatting...very specific narrow scope aimmed only on declared emergencies statutes...

    wabbit

    ps: really nc-tarheel GRNC is the sole contributor to this overturn of a bad statute and i suppose GRNC is also singularly responsible for the Gov to not seek re-election?
    If you have an issue with what I said maybe you should take it up With Mr. Valone next time you speak to him. Here I will quote him for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Valone GRNC
    Congratulations! You have won a great victory today as Grass Roots North Carolina and the Second Amendment Foundation won the Bateman v. Perdue lawsuit to strike down North Carolina's "state of emergency" gun ban. You should also thank GRNC supporters Michael Bateman, Virgil Green and Forrest Minges, Jr., who were plaintiffs in the suit.
    As far as Bev, she sealed her fate when she pissed the teachers off.

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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    I'm just trying to figure out whether I should uprev the OC Flyer right now or wait a bit (personally, if an emergency were declared, I would be carrying). The flyer mentions that weapons are prohibited in any 'Areas of emergency and riot'. It also gives the statute to refer to (14-288.7). If I ammend it to just say "areas of riot" and still give the statute, I'll probably have to put a footnote to refer to this case.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    If you have an issue with what I said maybe you should take it up With Mr. Valone next time you speak to him. Here I will quote him for you.
    ***snip***
    must have missed Mr. Valone’s organizational self-congratulatory missive - - darn the bad luck (sarcasm intentional)

    wabbit

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Perhaps Mr Wabbit's organized efforts for the cause of the 2nd Amendment are not properly recognized and he feels that maybe GRNC has done little compared to his group's successes.

    What say you then, Mr Wabbit? Care to share how your group is coming along since we last talked? By now you have surely formed and incorporated a leading band of 2A warriors who have marched onward in even more effective ways than other groups. Please tell us of your more recent history of victories in this regard. Or better yet, maybe we should just compare:

    GRNC:
    - Everything to do with positive changes in gun laws since 1994

    Mr Wabbit:
    - The soothing sound of crickets

    We get it, you don't think GRNC is worthy of your support. Not a problem. But you're criticizing the farmer while your mouth is full. They will never be perfect, but at least they are doing something.

    You stick to your group's accomplishments and fare ye well. At least your inactivity is less damaging than, say, the NCGV's active campaign against gun rights.

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    Oh, is that what it is. Let me guess, the NRA is no good either. Do you refuse to get a concealed carry permit also? Can't have the state knowing you are armed.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Rotorhead, nc-tarheel, et al., as I initially stated, and continued to state since the first of Dec 2011 when I began discussed GRNC’s marketing techniques by stating: “I know I am about to commit sacrilege and step onto a gaggle of toes but,… do we really need...sky to fall scare tactic rethoric (sic)…?” Rotorhead, you advised to pass my comments to “…GRNC leadership found on their website….”, however, the only leadership found on the non-membership side of the GRNC is generic contact form. Interestingly, a quick ping to similar type associations in nearby states provided the following information:
    Grass Roots South Carolina leadership: http://www.scfirearms.org/AboutUs/officers.html
    Georgia Carry leadership: http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/abou...ership-of-gco/
    Civilian Marksmanship Program leadership: http://www.odcmp.com/Comm/Board.htm
    Virginia Citizens Defense League leadership: http://www.vcdl.org/static/officers.html
    Michigan Open Carry leadership: http://www.michiganopencarry.org/?q=contact
    So who, per se, actually constitutes the decision making board of director’s of the GRNC-FFE, GRNC-PVF, and RWI?

    While everyone insists on stating I am diss’g GRNC’s contribution(s) my review of my comments continue to state similar lines of: “…to continue doing the outstanding work they have contributed in the past.” My contention is from a review of their website being based on past contributions and from the reading of GRNC’s proclamations they single handedly passed/defeated bill(s) w/o benefit of the NC general assembly:
    • “In recent years, GRNC LAT has killed… “ http://www.grnc.org/legislative-acti...at-is-grnc-lat
    • “Most recently, GRNC successfully passed the “Castle Doctrine”… http://www.grnc.org/join-grnc/why-join-grnc
    • “GRNC was central to drafting and passing North Carolina’s concealed handgun law. http://www.grnc.org/home/about-grnc/...ccomplishments
    • “GRNC passed legislation enabling concealed handgun permit-holders to avoid redundant background checks…” http://www.grnc.org/home/about-grnc/...ccomplishments
    • “Made emergency concealed handgun permits available to domestic violence victims…”
    • “GRNC recently passed omnibus gun bill HB 650…” http://www.grnc.org/home/about-grnc/...ccomplishments

    Even the very court decision being discussed, contradictions from the initial GRNC statements where GRNC states: “Grass Roots North Carolina* has joined Michael Bateman, Virgil Green, Forrest Minges, Jr., and the Second Amendment Foundation in a lawsuit…” (http://www.grnc.org/home/grnc-legal-action) yet GRNC’s website home page headlines state in bolded red lettering “ GRNC wins ‘state of emergency’ suit…” (http://www.grnc.org/home/about-grnc).

    David Regnery, GRNC Board Member, articulated GRNC’s contributions this way:
    “If you have a concealed carry permit in North Carolina, you have GRNC to thank for that privilege. If you have ever used that carry permit to purchase a hand gun in lieu of a pistol purchase permit, you again have GRNC to thank. These are two examples of legislation we have drafted and that have been written into law.” (http://www.ncteaparty.com/page/2/?s=grnc&x=0&y=0)

    Yes, linguist semantics to be sure and I concede, every marketing story is always presented from the eyes of the beholder, however, as my daddy used to say…tough to play in the pond all by yourself!!

    Since GRNC-FFE, GRNC-PVC, and RWI are registered 501(c)(x) not-for-profit organizations, and are of course, entitled to spend the membership’s contributions as the organization(s) feels appropriate. Modern election laws coupled w/the internet it is interesting to see which candidates have directly received money from these GRNC’s PACs:
    “…most recently replacing former House Majority Leader Hugh Holliman with pro-gun supporter Rayne Brown (2010)…”
    http://ncfef.org/Images/2010%20Outsi...by%20group.pdf
    “…GRNC-PVF ensured the election of Congressman Patrick McHenry.” http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/can_give/H4NC10047

    I must state unequivocally, just like those massive marathon, etc., fundraisers I wonder where my contributions goes to, so one of the reasons I hesitate to contribute to other 501s is there is no disclosure where contributions go or how much is going towards ‘administrative’ costs!! Fortunately, many of the ‘major’ 501s provide ratios of their cost breakdowns so those contributing know they are getting the biggest bang for their buck. Were you aware, a similar grass roots entity, Buckeye Firearms Association, provides full financial disclosure of their organizational contributions/expenditures and provides the detailed information for everyone to get to it. http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Financial-Reports.

    Isn’t it a shame and wouldn't it be refreshing if more 501 entities provided their contributors this type of information so they can make an informed decision if they wish to continue donating their hard earned money.

    So w/o me spouting organizational emotionality, name calling, or other type of jumping up and down, if you, or other OC/GRNC member feel any critical examination of and suggestions provided is diss’g GRNC and its contributions to NC’s citizens, then I wholeheartedly apologize to FPV, et al.

    Wabbit

    PS: do wonder if FPV and NRA kissed and made up?
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 03-31-2012 at 04:24 PM.

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Have you asked them yet for a copy of their financial disclosures? You can use their generic contact form that will go directly to their leadership (as I have in the past) and they will get back to you. They have no paid employees so I'm not sure which one it will go to, but one of them will get it- and write back.

    Use the form, it works. In fact, it'll work better than posting your questions here on an unaffiliated website.

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    So it's not good enough that a group of volunteers is successfully fighting for your Second Amendment Rights, you need to know how every penny is being spent before you will help. They have a proven track record. These Legislators don't wake up in the morning and say I think we need to introduce some more pro gun bills today. Some group of people is pushing for those bills. They ask for $25 a year. That is a drop in the bucket to what they need. From the member side of the website there is still the generic contact form. Rest assured if you use it someone will respond to you rather quickly. If it would make you feel better I will tell Mr. Valone to spend your entire $25 contribution solely on printing the new state concealed carry reciprocity cards that are handed out at gun shows and concealed carry classes.

    But I know you wont donate. You would rather lurk the internet and complain about what others do while yourself is totally inactive. Don't worry though, I will still actively support causes that allow you to enjoy the freedoms that are afforded to us by the Constitution of the United States of America.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 04-01-2012 at 12:13 AM.

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    This is awesome news. Kudos to SAF and GRNC, and all the gun owners in NC who have been working to get this stupid law struck down.

    This is truly a huge victory for NC gun owners, and for pro-2A people nation-wide...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    This is awesome news. Kudos to SAF and GRNC, and all the gun owners in NC who have been working to get this stupid law struck down.

    This is truly a huge victory for NC gun owners, and for pro-2A people nation-wide...
    You had a little victory of your own up in MD recently, didn't you?

    Has the ruling actually made a difference in people getting permits yet up there, or is it being challenged already? I can't imagine the Baltimore city council simply allowing all permits now even with the ruling lol.

    Come back home Dreamer, come to the light...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    My understanding dmatting...very specific narrow scope aimmed only on declared emergencies statutes...
    I would agree EXCEPT for this section of the ruling:

    As in Masciandaro, the statutes involved in this case burden the rights of law abiding citizens. As such, they merit stricter scrutiny than would similar laws targeting felons l domestic violence misdemeanants or other individuals posing public safety concerns.

    Which is applicable with most gun control laws.

    The issue of strict v. reasonable review was left open by the supreme court ... and another ruling saying that most laws require strict scrutiny will help with most other cases.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    You had a little victory of your own up in MD recently, didn't you?

    Has the ruling actually made a difference in people getting permits yet up there, or is it being challenged already? I can't imagine the Baltimore city council simply allowing all permits now even with the ruling lol.

    Come back home Dreamer, come to the light...

    The MSP has put a temporary delay on the issuance of permits, because they have been literally flooded with thousands of applications. They are required by State law to issue permits within 90 days, but they have said the current influx of applications has made that impossible.

    And the State AG has filed for a Stay on the ruling taking effect, which the Ruling Judge granted, pending further clarification.

    MD will fight this one tooth and nail--the idea of the serfs being legally armed is so appalling to the State that they will gladly spend MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars fighting it all the way to the SCotUS if they have to, to get it overturned (which they won't because it is VERY likely that if they file for an appeal, that it will NOT be heard by the Federal Appeals Court, because they will have almost sero change on winning, based on case law precedent...)

    Right now we're in a holding pattern in MD, because the State AG, the MSP and the Governor are essentially taking a huge, steaming, legalistic dump on the US Constitution.

    If I didn't have all my family up here, and my wife's job wasn't so freaking fantastic here, I would move back to NC in a heartbeat, believe me. But for now, my place is here. There is still work to be done...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The MSP has put a temporary delay on the issuance of permits, because they have been literally flooded with thousands of applications. They are required by State law to issue permits within 90 days, but they have said the current influx of applications has made that impossible.

    And the State AG has filed for a Stay on the ruling taking effect, which the Ruling Judge granted, pending further clarification.

    MD will fight this one tooth and nail--the idea of the serfs being legally armed is so appalling to the State that they will gladly spend MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars fighting it all the way to the SCotUS if they have to, to get it overturned (which they won't because it is VERY likely that if they file for an appeal, that it will NOT be heard by the Federal Appeals Court, because they will have almost sero change on winning, based on case law precedent...)

    Right now we're in a holding pattern in MD, because the State AG, the MSP and the Governor are essentially taking a huge, steaming, legalistic dump on the US Constitution.

    If I didn't have all my family up here, and my wife's job wasn't so freaking fantastic here, I would move back to NC in a heartbeat, believe me. But for now, my place is here. There is still work to be done...
    Wow, that's odd. The ruling judge says that what the state is doing is unconstitutional, yet allows it to continue it's unconstitutional ways until such time as the state deems it will comply lol. Strange that a ruling judge would allow for that.

    Well, we'll keep the home fires burning for you. Let me know when you get a chance to escape for a while.

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    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Oh, is that what it is. Let me guess, the NRA is no good either. Do you refuse to get a concealed carry permit also? Can't have the state knowing you are armed.
    Yep the NRA is a compromise group, and I do refuse to get a CCL for that very reason? And....?

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    Rotorhead, nc-tarheel, et al., ***snip***

    So who, per se, actually constitutes the decision making board of director’s of the GRNC-FFE, GRNC-PVF, and RWI?

    ***snip***
    David Regnery, GRNC Board Member,

    ***snip ***

    PS: do wonder if FPV and NRA kissed and made up?
    besides the self admission of Mr. Regnery, anyone wish to respond w/o the jumping up and down directing their emotionality towards me...hummm?

    wabbit
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

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    On topic, it is a good win. I am not affiliated with any of the groups out of this state but I am proud of any and all of them that put any work towards this goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    besides the self admission of Mr. Regnery, anyone wish to respond w/o the jumping up and down directing their emotionality towards me...hummm?

    wabbit
    I am one of the 12

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