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Thread: Campus, OC, LEO encounter

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Campus, OC, LEO encounter

    Our disabled friend has a Dr appointment this afternoon and since it is easier to get her in and out of the car rather than my 1 ton, 4X4 dully I took the wife to work (she's an academic librarian) so I could keep the car. As I pull into the parking lot next to the library she says "As long as you're here could you come in and help me shift my desk and credenza around".

    Well I wasn't expecting to get out so I am wearing tan desert combat boots, khaki 5-11 cargo pants, pale blue 5-11 polo shirt and my black "Gunny Glock" hat (The Gunny in Marine Class A greens and "Smokey" hat and GLOCK in a silver strip on the left side) and I'm carrying the Para P-14, not a small pistol, in a black 3 slot pancake holster so the butt is ~ 45* forward with matching double mag pouch on the left, rather hard to miss.

    As we approach the library a city cop (campus does not have it's own LEOs, 3 city LEO assigned to the campus full time) emerges from the breeze way under the second floor from not quite 90* to my right, crosses in front of us and heads our way. I see him give me the once over, no way he missed seeing my piece, it stands out black against the light colored clothing. As he gets even with us he says......... are you ready for this......... "Nice hat".

    I think I'm getting to really like Colorado!

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Our disabled friend has a Dr appointment this afternoon and since it is easier to get her in and out of the car rather than my 1 ton, 4X4 dully I took the wife to work (she's an academic librarian) so I could keep the car. As I pull into the parking lot next to the library she says "As long as you're here could you come in and help me shift my desk and credenza around".

    Well I wasn't expecting to get out so I am wearing tan desert combat boots, khaki 5-11 cargo pants, pale blue 5-11 polo shirt and my black "Gunny Glock" hat (The Gunny in Marine Class A greens and "Smokey" hat and GLOCK in a silver strip on the left side) and I'm carrying the Para P-14, not a small pistol, in a black 3 slot pancake holster so the butt is ~ 45* forward with matching double mag pouch on the left, rather hard to miss.

    As we approach the library a city cop (campus does not have it's own LEOs, 3 city LEO assigned to the campus full time) emerges from the breeze way under the second floor from not quite 90* to my right, crosses in front of us and heads our way. I see him give me the once over, no way he missed seeing my piece, it stands out black against the light colored clothing. As he gets even with us he says......... are you ready for this......... "Nice hat".

    I think I'm getting to really like Colorado!
    Wow! What campus was this?

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    haha, that's awesome. I was totally expecting another LEO confrontation problem story.
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    Wow! What campus was this?
    Colorado Mesa in Grand Junction.

    Earlier, shortly after she got there, she was having a meeting with the university administrator over security and in the course of their meeting he mentioned "There are 26 faculty and staff we know of that have their CCWs" she looked him in the eye and said "27". She said he didn't even bat an eye. Seems to be a pretty accepting environment here.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Colorado Mesa in Grand Junction.

    Earlier, shortly after she got there, she was having a meeting with the university administrator over security and in the course of their meeting he mentioned "There are 26 faculty and staff we know of that have their CCWs" she looked him in the eye and said "27". She said he didn't even bat an eye. Seems to be a pretty accepting environment here.
    Outstanding - the best repondent reply of the day!

    Now to the real question - can she and other "faculty and staff" legally carry within the buildings and classrooms? Is there an official policy of the school or are they operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy?
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    Stories like this always give me a great feeling. Congrats on having no issues and welcome to Colorado. On another note, I am really glad to hear that Grand Junction police are good about OC. We don't have too many members out that way, but it is good that the police still respect Open Carriers in their area.

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    Activist Member SigGuy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Outstanding - the best repondent reply of the day!

    Now to the real question - can she and other "faculty and staff" legally carry within the buildings and classrooms? Is there an official policy of the school or are they operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy?
    As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigGuy23 View Post
    As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.
    Last I heard the courts here told the Universities that they cannot ban carry on their campus as it would over-ride state laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigGuy23 View Post
    As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.
    Wish Maine would do that. I would love to be able to OC at school here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Colorado Mesa in Grand Junction.

    Earlier, shortly after she got there, she was having a meeting with the university administrator over security and in the course of their meeting he mentioned "There are 26 faculty and staff we know of that have their CCWs" she looked him in the eye and said "27". She said he didn't even bat an eye. Seems to be a pretty accepting environment here.
    By any chance do you know if we are legally allowed to open carry on any public college campus such as University of Colorado with our concealed carry permits?
    Last edited by Deserteagle8338; 03-31-2012 at 03:26 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Outstanding - the best repondent reply of the day!

    Now to the real question - can she and other "faculty and staff" legally carry within the buildings and classrooms? Is there an official policy of the school or are they operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy?
    Quote Originally Posted by SigGuy23 View Post
    As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhco50 View Post
    Last I heard the courts here told the Universities that they cannot ban carry on their campus as it would over-ride state laws.
    Does anyone have a link to the applicable statute(s) and/or such court decisions that would support this?
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    OK, I'm new to Colorado but to my knowledge UC was the only college/university still banning any type of carry on campus and they just got slapped down by the Colorado Supreme Court so both CCW and OC should be no problem on any public college/university campus.



    OK the new article only talks about concealed carry, but since there is no law allowing OC if colleges and universities have to follow state law on CC IMHO OC would have to be allowed.....

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...82504920120306
    Last edited by F350; 03-31-2012 at 04:12 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    OK, OK the new article only talks about concealed carry, but since there is no law allowing OC if colleges and universities have to follow state law on CC IMHO OC would have to be allowed.....

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...82504920120306
    Pardon the rant, but -

    Laws do not allow anything. Never, ever, not nohow, no way. Laws list the things that are illegal, and some of them then include exemptions to the illegality. Like the laws (don't know if Colorado has one but would guess it does) against concealed carry, which then lists having a permit/license as an examption to the crime of carrying concealed.

    Most of the time regulations and policies list things that must be done and often avoid an additional procedure by listing how that thing is to be done.

    The above comes from 5 years of post-graduate study of bureauacracy and a lifetime of living with them. It's a down&dirty explanation that might skip over some of the finer points, but the major point is that laws never allow anything. Please take pity on an Oulde Phart and stop saying/writing that. Thank you.

    /rant

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhco50 View Post
    Last I heard the courts here told the Universities that they cannot ban carry on their campus as it would over-ride state laws.
    At the moment, it is LEGAL to carry there...


    So you can't get arrested. That doesn't mean you c an't be expelled, suspended, or fired.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    IMHO whatever CO state law is, that is what the university system has to live with. Your Supreme Court just said so.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Pardon the rant, but -

    Laws do not allow anything. Never, ever, not nohow, no way. Laws list the things that are illegal, and some of them then include exemptions to the illegality. Like the laws (don't know if Colorado has one but would guess it does) against concealed carry, which then lists having a permit/license as an examption to the crime of carrying concealed.

    Most of the time regulations and policies list things that must be done and often avoid an additional procedure by listing how that thing is to be done.

    The above comes from 5 years of post-graduate study of bureauacracy and a lifetime of living with them. It's a down & dirty explanation that might skip over some of the finer points, but the major point is that laws never allow anything. Please take pity on an Oulde Phart and stop saying/writing that. Thank you.

    /rant

    stay safe.
    I was perhaps too brief in my post; your post is exactly the way I usually argue when someone says "show me the law where that is allowed". US law is based on prohibitions not permissions, that which is not illegal is legal.

    I need to get more familiar with Colorado firearms preemption law

    What I was getting at is there is only a law permitting Concealed Carry (or more precisely granting an exception to the prohibition on CC) and that was the main thrust of the court ruling.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    At the moment, it is LEGAL to carry there...


    So you can't get arrested. That doesn't mean you c an't be expelled, suspended, or fired.
    Actually I think that is exactly what it means, the case was brought by students who had CCWs and wanted to carry on campus.
    Last edited by F350; 04-01-2012 at 05:13 PM.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Actually I think that is exactly what it means, the case was brought by students who had CCWs and wanted to carry on campus.
    And what the ruling said was that the students were right and they should be allowed to carry.

    Meaning that the policy was essentially against the law.

    Until they cange the campus carry policy however, it places you in the same position I was in '07 when I was expelled...but not arrested.

    And there is nothing that says they actually will change it... Just because the US Supreme struck down the DC ban, doesn't mean they changed things overnight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigGuy23 View Post
    As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.
    Only public universities and colleges such as Colorado State University. They can mandate "No Open Display of Firearms" but they cannot deny firearms altogether.

    Private colleges and universities retain the same legal status as private businesses.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Only public universities and colleges such as Colorado State University. They can mandate "No Open Display of Firearms" but they cannot deny firearms altogether.

    Private colleges and universities retain the same legal status as private businesses.
    Exactly right. The State Regents thought they were above the law, which is full state preemption. The COSC corrected their thinking. OC can be banned, as it is not legal, merely not 'illegal,' but not CC. Grape, there is a thread on the COSC decision.
    http://www.9news.com/news/local/arti...ampus-gun-ban-
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 04-03-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Exactly right. The State Regents thought they were above the law, which is full state preemption. The COSC corrected their thinking. OC can be banned, as it is not legal, merely not 'illegal,' but not CC. Grape, there is a thread on the COSC decision.
    http://www.9news.com/news/local/arti...ampus-gun-ban-
    The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.


    Seems legal to me.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
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    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    There is going to be a presentation in the Tivoli center on the Auraria campus tomorrow. I'll forward on what they have to say there.

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