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Thread: CLSD -- Defender of our rights! Thank you for oposing SB59

  1. #1
    Darth2A-Dfnder
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    CLSD -- Defender of our rights! Thank you for oposing SB59

    I used to post here, but have been hanging out mostly on MGO these days. I saw a post referring me to CLSD's position on SB59 and I thought I'd come here to post!

    GeneralDet,


    I support your position on SB 59. This evil legislation must be stopped!


    I will oppose any bill unless it allows my 16 year old Felon son (who was convicted at age 7 of bludgeoning his kindergarten teach to death with a mace) can open or conceal carry his Uzi at his "youth camp" (prison/school) without any permits.


    * CPLs are unconstitutional
    * Purchase Permits are unconstitutional
    * Age limits are unconstitutional
    * Felon prohibitions are unconstitutional


    To that end, I will be at the Con Carry rally on May 19th. There, on the steps on the capitol, I will be smelting all of my modern handguns (I can't sell them to anyone as that would involve unconstitutional CPLs or Purchase permits). I will also burn my hard-plastic CPL (I was one of the "lucky" ones to get hard plastic). I will be leaving the molten metal and plastic from my guns and CPL on the steps of the Capitol as a mark that will scar the steps so that way every legislature will have to see it on the way into session. They will remember me!


    We need to stop SB 59 because it simply doesn't go all the way!


    I hope you, GeneralDet, Warchild, and Michigander, will join me in this exercise on May 19th. After all, how can you be for Con Carry yet have a CPL and modern handguns -- it seems hypocritical. We must all follow the steps of the great path laid by CrossPistols

    I'm so glad a firearms right group speaks for me! God bless CLSD!! John Roshek (signed President CLSD) hit it right on the head! A true patriot he is! It take quite a defender of our rights to say "NO!" when what they are giving us just isn't plain good enough!

    I look forward to proudly standing side by side with him as we both open carry our our antique pistols!

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth2A-Dfnder View Post
    I used to post here, but have been hanging out mostly on MGO these days. I saw a post referring me to CLSD's position on SB59 and I thought I'd come here to post!

    GeneralDet,


    I support your position on SB 59. This evil legislation must be stopped!


    I will oppose any bill unless it allows my 16 year old Felon son (who was convicted at age 7 of bludgeoning his kindergarten teach to death with a mace) can open or conceal carry his Uzi at his "youth camp" (prison/school) without any permits.


    * CPLs are unconstitutional
    * Purchase Permits are unconstitutional
    * Age limits are unconstitutional
    * Felon prohibitions are unconstitutional


    To that end, I will be at the Con Carry rally on May 19th. There, on the steps on the capitol, I will be smelting all of my modern handguns (I can't sell them to anyone as that would involve unconstitutional CPLs or Purchase permits). I will also burn my hard-plastic CPL (I was one of the "lucky" ones to get hard plastic). I will be leaving the molten metal and plastic from my guns and CPL on the steps of the Capitol as a mark that will scar the steps so that way every legislature will have to see it on the way into session. They will remember me!


    We need to stop SB 59 because it simply doesn't go all the way!


    I hope you, GeneralDet, Warchild, and Michigander, will join me in this exercise on May 19th. After all, how can you be for Con Carry yet have a CPL and modern handguns -- it seems hypocritical. We must all follow the steps of the great path laid by CrossPistols

    I'm so glad a firearms right group speaks for me! God bless CLSD!! John Roshek (signed President CLSD) hit it right on the head! A true patriot he is! It take quite a defender of our rights to say "NO!" when what they are giving us just isn't plain good enough!

    I look forward to proudly standing side by side with him as we both open carry our our antique pistols!
    Welcome back.

    Maybe these guys could help MHA. They're looking for lobbyists to get this bill killed. They seem to have the same agenda.
    Last edited by 313; 03-30-2012 at 06:58 PM.

  4. #4
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    Are you talking to yourself again Pat?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Are you talking to yourself again Pat?
    Not this time brainless1911. That's a new guy.

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    Fair enough, my bad.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    ĦAy, caramba!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  8. #8
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Is CLSD really opposing this bill?
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  9. #9
    Darth2A-Dfnder
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Is CLSD really opposing this bill?
    Yes they are! See this blog post!



    Wednesday, March 28, 2012Why SB 59 is a bad thing for gun owners
    My friends, after a long and drawn out battle over our domain name with another company our site is back and we have a VERY urgent message for you!

    Currently there is a bill up for vote called SB59. Some of you may be aware of this bill and its contents, other may not. Recently, some of our members asked for our feedback on this bill. Several key topics are included in SB59, the main issue being allowing citizens who take an extra day of CPL training to carry in pistol free zones. This bill does nothing to restore our Constitutional Rights, nor does it bring us closer to our goal of Constitutional Carry. In fact the only thing this bill does is continue to dangle the carrot in front of lawful gun owners that if we want the "right" to carry in pistol free zones we need more training as mandated by the Government. Individuals will not be forced to take this additional training if they do not choose, but they will be forced to take it if they wish to exercise a right that they should have anyway. If I can open carry in a school or a bar with a valid CPL with no additional training that what I have already received, how does putting my shirt over my firearm make me less responsible therefore requiring me to take more training?

    We always say that laws make no sense, this one is no different. The goal should be to repeal current legislation, not continue to layer it with more nonsensical bureaucratic red tape. Some will argue that you need to take "baby steps" to accomplish the overall goal, you can't get there in one leap, it takes time. In my opinion this is a cop out. If all firearm owners united and fought for Constitutional Carry the message to our elected officials would be overwhelming, but instead society has become accustom to taking bread crumbs we are given. Have we lost our way? Have we forgotten that WE are the people that our Constitution refers to? Have we become so indoctrinated that we grab the first thing thrown our way and call it a step in the right direction? I pray we have not gotten to that point. I believe that there is still fight in us to take back what is rightfully ours.

    In short, CLSD can not support SB59 in its current form. This contradicts that very principles that I founded this organization on. On May 19th at the Constitutional Carry Rally I will deliver a speech on restoring our rights, if we supported this bill I would not even be able to look you all in the eye, how could I stand up there and say, "I support Constitutional Carry and the 2nd Amendment, BUT......". General Patton was quoted as saying "Anyone, in any walk of life who is content with mediocrity is untrue to himself and the American way."

    I encourage all members to research this bill for yourselves and draw your own conclusions.

    We will NOT compromise! We will not settle! Thank you for your time and consideration.

    Carry on,

    John Roshek
    President / CEO, Citizens League For Self Defense, Inc.
    GO CLSD!

  10. #10
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    If gun owners in Michigan are successful in killing this bill, I'd bet the farm that there will never ever be any legislation that will ever see the light of day that is even close to being acceptable to any gun owner whatsoever. We have the ear of them right now. They are using 12 years of CPL history to enhance the law. If this passes we will be able to show history in accomplishing future changes. If it is killed by the Fudds, we will have nothing.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    If this bill dies, I hope the people opposing it can get something better introduced. I sincerely hope in the end, if this bill dies because of gun owner opposition, that we will have something better in 5 years than we would have had if this passes.

    Some otherwise pro-gun legislators have told me they are tired trying to please gun owners -- because no matter how hard they try to get something passed (I know people who spend hundreds of hours negotiating a pro-gun package) gun owners never seem satisfied. I hope there are strong legislators left with the unwavering fortitude of the Himalayas who won't just throw their hands up in the air and quit trying.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  12. #12
    313
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    Remember this is the same guy, John Roshek aka GeneralDet, that was the president of MOC who up and quit for no good reason at all. He left MOC out to dry. Now he's trying to usurp all gun carriers in Michigan with his my way or the highway mentality.
    Last edited by 313; 03-30-2012 at 07:41 PM.

  13. #13
    313
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    And he's not the only quitter that's trying to do this.

    Warchild and the novelist Michigander are in bed with him.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 313 View Post
    If gun owners in Michigan are successful in killing this bill, I'd bet the farm that there will never ever be any legislation that will ever see the light of day that is even close to being acceptable to any gun owner whatsoever. We have the ear of them right now. They are using 12 years of CPL history to enhance the law. If this passes we will be able to show history in accomplishing future changes. If it is killed by the Fudds, we will have nothing.

  15. #15
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    If this bill dies, I hope the people opposing it can get something better introduced. I sincerely hope in the end, if this bill dies because of gun owner opposition, that we will have something better in 5 years than we would have had if this passes.

    Some otherwise pro-gun legislators have told me they are tired trying to please gun owners -- because no matter how hard they try to get something passed (I know people who spend hundreds of hours negotiating a pro-gun package) gun owners never seem satisfied. I hope there are strong legislators left with the unwavering fortitude of the Himalayas who won't just throw their hands up in the air and quit trying.
    I agree. If this bill dies I'd like to see them get bills like the elimination of PFZs to get passed committees let alone becoming law. If they can't I'll make sure to let them know my displeasure with their lack of doing anything to further gun rights.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  16. #16
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth2A-Dfnder View Post
    I used to post here, but have been hanging out mostly on MGO these days. I saw a post referring me to CLSD's position on SB59 and I thought I'd come here to post!

    GeneralDet,


    I support your position on SB 59. This evil legislation must be stopped!


    I will oppose any bill unless it allows my 16 year old Felon son (who was convicted at age 7 of bludgeoning his kindergarten teach to death with a mace) can open or conceal carry his Uzi at his "youth camp" (prison/school) without any permits.


    * CPLs are unconstitutional
    * Purchase Permits are unconstitutional
    * Age limits are unconstitutional
    * Felon prohibitions are unconstitutional


    To that end, I will be at the Con Carry rally on May 19th. There, on the steps on the capitol, I will be smelting all of my modern handguns (I can't sell them to anyone as that would involve unconstitutional CPLs or Purchase permits). I will also burn my hard-plastic CPL (I was one of the "lucky" ones to get hard plastic). I will be leaving the molten metal and plastic from my guns and CPL on the steps of the Capitol as a mark that will scar the steps so that way every legislature will have to see it on the way into session. They will remember me!


    We need to stop SB 59 because it simply doesn't go all the way!


    I hope you, GeneralDet, Warchild, and Michigander, will join me in this exercise on May 19th. After all, how can you be for Con Carry yet have a CPL and modern handguns -- it seems hypocritical. We must all follow the steps of the great path laid by CrossPistols

    I'm so glad a firearms right group speaks for me! God bless CLSD!! John Roshek (signed President CLSD) hit it right on the head! A true patriot he is! It take quite a defender of our rights to say "NO!" when what they are giving us just isn't plain good enough!

    I look forward to proudly standing side by side with him as we both open carry our our antique pistols!
    And maybe you'll get a nice new littering ticket, that no doubt will come out of the coffers of your loyal followers!

    Remember people when I said that this group was a bad Idea?? When I was then secretary of MOC??? Shocking ain't it??
    Last edited by NHCGRPR45; 03-30-2012 at 08:14 PM.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  17. #17
    Darth2A-Dfnder
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Remember people when I said that this group was a bad Idea?? When I was then secretary of MOC??? Shocking ain't it??
    Don't trash CLSD! Since you were the secretary of MOC let me ask you what MOC has done lately to defend our rights other than "compromise" them away?
    Last edited by Darth2A-Dfnder; 03-30-2012 at 08:25 PM.

  18. #18
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    Care to clarify that claim?

  19. #19
    Darth2A-Dfnder
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Care to clarify that claim?
    Mr. Roshek indicates we shouldn't compromise in his blog post. That's exactly what MOC has done by helping to write this bill!

  20. #20
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    Oh god. This is getting silly now. Well part of it is silly, that part about our own 2A community fighting this bill is not.

  21. #21
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Oh god. This is getting silly now. Well part of it is silly, that part about our own 2A community fighting this bill is not.
    +1
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  22. #22
    Darth2A-Dfnder
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    +1
    The only "silly" thing was your "compromise". You could learn a few things from John Roshek!

  23. #23
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    If you dont compromise, you will lose.

  24. #24
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth2A-Dfnder View Post
    Don't trash CLSD! Since you were the secretary of MOC let me ask you what MOC has done lately to defend our rights other than "compromise" them away?
    Did you not read SB-59? I stand behind plans, and LEADERS who deserve to lead, who don't run who actually open carry, and who have not just there own failing agendas to forward.

    Thanks Darth Insidious, but you cannot tempt me with the Dark Side, My Viridian Green Light saber shall forever be wielded to fight the Sith gun grabbers and those who would turn from good!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpB...eature=related
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth2A-Dfnder View Post
    The only "silly" thing was your "compromise". You could learn a few things from John Roshek!
    Like what??? How to be a quitter??? John Roshek is just sour because MOC has become a main stream gun right advocacy organization with out him. It is personal with him.

    Quitters are losers that never win.

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