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Thread: Weird Incident

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    Weird Incident

    So I'm driving home this morning from a club in Milwaukee and when I'm 5 miles from home at 2:30am I get pulled over by a Waterford LEO for speeding. I informed the LEO I was armed and my wallet was in my pocket by my gun. He asks for my gun and DL and CCW and unloads my weapon giving me back my bullet and magazine while taking possession of the weapon. It takes him 15 min to do his stuff and write out a ticket and returns. He then tells me I'm not supposed to have the gun loaded. I'm like WTF? Where did you hear that from. So I'm supposed to carry a concealed unloaded weapon. He said the law was still new to him when I told him I never heard of that from any LEO who has ever stopped me. Wonder what would make him think that.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bspiller View Post
    Wonder what would make him think that.
    Ignorance due to poor training. The law is no newer to him than to anyone else, and we all know the gun can be loaded!
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  3. #3
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    ...and that he must request CCL and ID. Do not volunteer.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    He had the firearm so he probably ran the numbers... Adding another "crime gun" to the list.




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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bspiller View Post
    So I'm driving home this morning from a club in Milwaukee and when I'm 5 miles from home at 2:30am I get pulled over by a Waterford LEO for speeding. I informed the LEO I was armed and my wallet was in my pocket by my gun. He asks for my gun and DL and CCW and unloads my weapon giving me back my bullet and magazine while taking possession of the weapon. It takes him 15 min to do his stuff and write out a ticket and returns. He then tells me I'm not supposed to have the gun loaded. I'm like WTF? Where did you hear that from. So I'm supposed to carry a concealed unloaded weapon. He said the law was still new to him when I told him I never heard of that from any LEO who has ever stopped me. Wonder what would make him think that.
    First, why were you speeding? Second, why did you tell him you had a pistol on you? I have never voluntered and I have never been asked (though I know my CPL comes up when they run my drivers license) They have no reason to be interested in your weapon while at a traffic stop. A traffic infraction is an infraction, not a crime, therefore they have no legal reason to ask for, or handle either your license or your pistol.

    I would file a civil rights violation complaint with the officers department. He had no legal need or right to do what he did. Remember, to disarm you they need resonable suspician of a CRIME...a traffic infraction does not qualify.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    SNIP First, why were you speeding?
    Whoa there buddy, where did he say he was speeding? He said he got pulled over for speeding which means this is what the officer told him. It doesn't mean that he WAS speeding.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    The police are under no obligation to tell you the truth.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    The police are under no obligation to tell you the truth.
    Bingo!!!
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bspiller View Post
    So I'm driving home this morning from a club in Milwaukee and when I'm 5 miles from home at 2:30am I get pulled over by a Waterford LEO for speeding. I informed the LEO I was armed and my wallet was in my pocket by my gun. He asks for my gun and DL and CCW and unloads my weapon giving me back my bullet and magazine while taking possession of the weapon. It takes him 15 min to do his stuff and write out a ticket and returns. He then tells me I'm not supposed to have the gun loaded. I'm like WTF? Where did you hear that from. So I'm supposed to carry a concealed unloaded weapon. He said the law was still new to him when I told him I never heard of that from any LEO who has ever stopped me. Wonder what would make him think that.

    Interesting that he told you you cannot have a loaded handgun....I had someone ask me that question yesterday "Can I carry my pistol with a round in the chamber? I was told by a police officer I could not carry it with a round chambered?" My response to his question was "What good is a gun if it isn't loaded?" And...I said "How do you carry a revolver? Do you leave three chambers or so empty in the cylinder?" It seems there are more than one or two police officers out there spreading this incorrect information.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

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    Never offer LEO's more information than is asked of you, and only offer info that you are required by law to give. Know your rights!!

    When you offer up info like that, it seems to me you feel guilty about something and are trying to cover your ass by 'coming clean'.

    Keep yer yap shut, give him your license, accept your speeding ticket, and go home.

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    Move your wallet away from your gun , or have the wallet sitting on the dash before he exits his car

    you know they are going to want your drivers license as soon as the lights go on.

    and get a photo copy of your proof of insurance and registration and keep it someplace easy to get to that is no where near a gun.
    Last edited by GreenCountyPete; 04-01-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member markush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCountyPete View Post
    you know they are going to want your drivers license as soon as the lights go on.

    Exactly!
    I see people always advocating you move your wallet to the opposite pocket/side as your gun...why? Just have it out before they get to your window! Maybe it's a product of me being pulled over so much as a kid but I always have my license in my hand before they even get out of their car. If your being pulled over, I don't care how good a of a flirt/bullshitter you think you are, you are going to have to show your license!

    Besides, Ive been carrying my wallet in my right pocket for 30 odd years and carrying a gun for 3 months. I'm certainly not moving my wallet now and I can't draw with my right hand if the guns on my left hip...
    Last edited by markush; 04-01-2012 at 12:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Ignorance due to poor training. The law is no newer to him than to anyone else, and we all know the gun can be loaded!
    Not due to poor training. Due to little or no training on the new laws. Officers are trained well. It is the person that can make the difference. Not all people you know are on the up and up with the new laws. Well law enforcement are just people trying to do a job. Most departments haven't even said a word about this law since it has happened to their officers. Not saying it is any reason for mis informing a citizen. It is a law enforcement officer's duty to make sure they know what they must enforce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bspiller View Post
    So I'm driving home this morning from a club in Milwaukee and when I'm 5 miles from home at 2:30am I get pulled over by a Waterford LEO for speeding. I informed the LEO I was armed and my wallet was in my pocket by my gun. He asks for my gun and DL and CCW and unloads my weapon giving me back my bullet and magazine while taking possession of the weapon. It takes him 15 min to do his stuff and write out a ticket and returns. He then tells me I'm not supposed to have the gun loaded. I'm like WTF? Where did you hear that from. So I'm supposed to carry a concealed unloaded weapon. He said the law was still new to him when I told him I never heard of that from any LEO who has ever stopped me. Wonder what would make him think that.
    You will recieve a lot of replies regarding your choice to inform the leo of your weapon. Under WI law you do not have to but IMHO it is common courtesy to inform the officer you infact have a loaded weapon on your person. IMHO if it was sitting in a car, encased, unloaded, who gives a crap if the officer knows. It isn't something he will worry about if he can see a encased weapon.

    How would you like to walk up to the window of someone's vehicle not knowing their intentions or views towards law enforcement? Keeping in mind that LOTS of officers are killed during "routine" traffic stops. Then you happen to catch a glimpse of a conceal weapon on the person you stopped. First thing that comes to mind isn't "oh he must be a legal citizen with no intentions of harming me". Althought it may be the second or third thing that comes to mind after confirming you have a permit.

    Basically what it comes down to is don't volunteer for anything the police ask if you haven't done anything wrong. or for that matter even if you did. It can lead you to be in more trouble.

    Carry On!

  15. #15
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    That's why police treat all people as dangerous until proven otherwise.
    Sort of like how medical personnel treat all people as infected.
    But since my property is no threat to anyone, there's no need to tell the cop about anything I have in my car.
    And if s/he happens to see the gun, well, by that point probably if I'd had nefarious intent the officer would have been harmed.
    If she's startled by it, maybe she'll be more thorough in her visual search the next time.
    Might save her life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    You will recieve a lot of replies regarding your choice to inform the leo of your weapon. Under WI law you do not have to but IMHO it is common courtesy to inform the officer you infact have a loaded weapon on your person. IMHO if it was sitting in a car, encased, unloaded, who gives a crap if the officer knows. It isn't something he will worry about if he can see a encased weapon.
    I don't make it a point of common courtesy to routinely inform strangers of my private possessions. Do you?

    How would you like to walk up to the window of someone's vehicle not knowing their intentions or views towards law enforcement?
    1. I wouldn't be out hunting on the public highways, searching for citizens who, though they have harmed no person or property, can have revenue extracted from them for violating arbitrary rules.
    2. There is no draft for law enforcement in this country. If they find themselves too afraid to do their jobs while respecting the rights of citizens, they should find more suitable employment, preferably in the productive sector.

    Keeping in mind that LOTS of officers are killed during "routine" traffic stops.
    1. Law enforcement isn't even in the top-10 list of occupational mortality. The local pizza delivery boy is statistically far more likely to give his life in the line of duty, i.e. providing a valuable product/service that people desire to voluntarily purchase, as opposed to demanding payment at gunpoint.
    2. Most who are killed at traffic stops die as a result of being hit by other automobiles.

    Then you happen to catch a glimpse of a conceal weapon on the person you stopped. First thing that comes to mind isn't "oh he must be a legal citizen with no intentions of harming me". Althought it may be the second or third thing that comes to mind after confirming you have a permit.
    The first thing that would come to my mind is, "Hmm, here is a citizen exercising a natural right. I have no idea what his intentions are, but until and unless I have reason to believe there is criminal activity afoot, there is not a damn thing I can do about the gun." Many peace officers I have encountered have had the same opinion, apparently, because they said not one word about my firearm. As it should be.

    Basically what it comes down to is don't volunteer for anything the police ask if you haven't done anything wrong. or for that matter even if you did. It can lead you to be in more trouble.

    Carry On!
    ^Totally agree with this.
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    I guess I'll stop offering up that I'm carrying and handing over my DL and CCW at the same time if I do get stopped for any reason. I've always only done it out of respect of the LEO. Like people have said to much info is no good. I was in a rush getting home. I needed my insulin and told the officer that and he asked if I needed an ambulance but since I was only 2 blocks from home I declined since my insulin was right there. In the end I ended up with a 22 mph over ticket for doing 77 in a 55 off hwy 83. Guess I learned my lesson and will hire an attorney to try and get this dropped or reduced so it doesn't affect my DL record.
    Last edited by bspiller; 04-01-2012 at 06:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markush View Post
    Exactly!
    I see people always advocating you move your wallet to the opposite pocket/side as your gun...why? Just have it out before they get to your window! Maybe it's a product of me being pulled over so much as a kid but I always have my license in my hand before they even get out of their car. If your being pulled over, I don't care how good a of a flirt/bullshitter you think you are, you are going to have to show your license!

    Besides, Ive been carrying my wallet in my right pocket for 30 odd years and carrying a gun for 3 months. I'm certainly not moving my wallet now and I can't draw with my right hand if the guns on my left hip...
    I agree with all that you have said, I am in the process of training myself to retrieve my wallet from my off side pocket so as to not "flash" my sidearm when I lift my shirt in a checkout lane. Let me tell you that 40 yr. old habits are hard to break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bspiller View Post
    I guess I'll stop offering up that I'm carrying and handing over my DL and CCW at the same time if I do get stopped for any reason. I've always only done it out of respect of the LEO. Like people have said to much info is no good. I was in a rush getting home. I needed my insulin and told the officer that and he asked if I needed an ambulance but since I was only 2 blocks from home I declined since my insulin was right there. In the end I ended up with a 22 mph over ticket for doing 72 in a 55 off hwy 83. Guess I learned my lesson and will hire an attorney to try and get this dropped or reduced so it doesn't affect my DL record.
    Wouldn't 72 MPH be 17 MPH over the limit? Or is there some new math out there?
    Wisconsin Carry Member

  20. #20
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Printing, flashing and brandishing are not in themselves prohibited in Wisconsin. Don't give the eager gun-controllers any new ideas for laws that they love to write.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markush View Post
    Exactly!
    I see people always advocating you move your wallet to the opposite pocket/side as your gun...why? Just have it out before they get to your window! Maybe it's a product of me being pulled over so much as a kid but I always have my license in my hand before they even get out of their car. If your being pulled over, I don't care how good a of a flirt/bullshitter you think you are, you are going to have to show your license!

    Besides, Ive been carrying my wallet in my right pocket for 30 odd years and carrying a gun for 3 months. I'm certainly not moving my wallet now and I can't draw with my right hand if the guns on my left hip...
    Just be careful that you don't make a lot of movement getting your wallet out before they walk up to your car. Otherwise it may look like you were trying to hide something before they saw it, which may lead to an involuntary search of your vehicle. Even though you may have nothing to hide, you don't want your vehicle searched.
    Wisconsin Carry Member

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bspiller View Post
    I guess I'll stop offering up that I'm carrying and handing over my DL and CCW at the same time if I do get stopped for any reason. I've always only done it out of respect of the LEO. Like people have said to much info is no good. I was in a rush getting home. I needed my insulin and told the officer that and he asked if I needed an ambulance but since I was only 2 blocks from home I declined since my insulin was right there. In the end I ended up with a 22 mph over ticket for doing 72 in a 55 off hwy 83. Guess I learned my lesson and will hire an attorney to try and get this dropped or reduced so it doesn't affect my DL record.
    Anyone doing >20mph over the speed limit needs to get a reckless driving ticket and perhaps lose their license, imo.

    Also, inexcusably poor planning to have to speed home to get your medication. Shame on you.
    Last edited by sawah; 04-01-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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  23. #23
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Keep your DL, registration and insurance certificate in an envelope on the driver's sunshade. When ordered to pull over, acknowledge the order and proceed to where YOU feel safe exiting your car. Secure, exit and lock your car with papers in hand and keys pocketed. Meet the officer at the curbside front of your vehicle. Do not give him reason or opportunity for an extra-legal sniff and peek inside your car.

    If you are a Concealed Carry Licensee, leave your gun visible on the seat in the locked car for his safety. Not carrying and not carrying concealed moots §176.60(2g)(c).

    Surrender your papers on his demand. Do not speak, what you say will be used against you. Decline every request but do not resist. If he thinks he has RAS/PC they will be orders.

    Review §345.22 and §345.23.

  24. #24
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    IMO I would not offer my CCL unless asked. Also most LEO's will not have you exit the vehicle unless they intend further action (such as search, sobriety test etc). I would sit tight and see what the officer had in mind.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  25. #25
    Regular Member markush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Keep your DL, registration and insurance certificate in an envelope on the driver's sunshade. When ordered to pull over, acknowledge the order and proceed to where YOU feel safe exiting your car. Secure, exit and lock your car with papers in hand and keys pocketed. Meet the officer at the curbside front of your vehicle. Do not give him reason or opportunity for an extra-legal sniff and peek inside your car.

    If you are a Concealed Carry Licensee, leave your gun visible on the seat in the locked car for his safety. Not carrying and not carrying concealed moots §176.60(2g)(c).

    Surrender your papers on his demand. Do not speak, what you say will be used against you. Decline every request but do not resist. If he thinks he has RAS/PC they will be orders.

    Review §345.22 and §345.23.
    Everything said there makes absolutely no sense to me! NONE! What happens when you leave DL on dash board in said envelope when in a store and inadvertently show your side arm? oops your papers are now in the car. So your saying un-holster your weapon when you are pulled over...seriously?? So your saying exit the vehicle when pulled over...seriously??

    If you convince enough braindead people to do as you just suggested someone will eventually get taken to the ground for exiting the vehicle when the cop sees a holster on his side...empty or not...I'd be more worried if it was empty and I didn't know where the gun was. Or get them shot when they have a ND when un-holstering!! Jesus man did you think about that post...at all??

    All those question marks are only there to show my disbelief in what you are saying and are not really asking you to explain so please feel free not to...please. My forehead cannot handle another facepalm today!
    Last edited by markush; 04-01-2012 at 05:07 PM.

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