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Weird Incident

Preferred Customer

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
30
Location
Greenfield, Wi
Exactly!
I see people always advocating you move your wallet to the opposite pocket/side as your gun...why? Just have it out before they get to your window! Maybe it's a product of me being pulled over so much as a kid but I always have my license in my hand before they even get out of their car. If your being pulled over, I don't care how good a of a flirt/bullshitter you think you are, you are going to have to show your license!

Besides, Ive been carrying my wallet in my right pocket for 30 odd years and carrying a gun for 3 months. I'm certainly not moving my wallet now and I can't draw with my right hand if the guns on my left hip...

Just be careful that you don't make a lot of movement getting your wallet out before they walk up to your car. Otherwise it may look like you were trying to hide something before they saw it, which may lead to an involuntary search of your vehicle. Even though you may have nothing to hide, you don't want your vehicle searched.
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
I guess I'll stop offering up that I'm carrying and handing over my DL and CCW at the same time if I do get stopped for any reason. I've always only done it out of respect of the LEO. Like people have said to much info is no good. I was in a rush getting home. I needed my insulin and told the officer that and he asked if I needed an ambulance but since I was only 2 blocks from home I declined since my insulin was right there. In the end I ended up with a 22 mph over ticket for doing 72 in a 55 off hwy 83. Guess I learned my lesson and will hire an attorney to try and get this dropped or reduced so it doesn't affect my DL record.

Anyone doing >20mph over the speed limit needs to get a reckless driving ticket and perhaps lose their license, imo.

Also, inexcusably poor planning to have to speed home to get your medication. Shame on you.
 
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Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Keep your DL, registration and insurance certificate in an envelope on the driver's sunshade. When ordered to pull over, acknowledge the order and proceed to where YOU feel safe exiting your car. Secure, exit and lock your car with papers in hand and keys pocketed. Meet the officer at the curbside front of your vehicle. Do not give him reason or opportunity for an extra-legal sniff and peek inside your car.

If you are a Concealed Carry Licensee, leave your gun visible on the seat in the locked car for his safety. Not carrying and not carrying concealed moots §176.60(2g)(c).

Surrender your papers on his demand. Do not speak, what you say will be used against you. Decline every request but do not resist. If he thinks he has RAS/PC they will be orders.

Review §345.22 and §345.23.
 

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
IMO I would not offer my CCL unless asked. Also most LEO's will not have you exit the vehicle unless they intend further action (such as search, sobriety test etc). I would sit tight and see what the officer had in mind.
 

markush

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Kenosha
Keep your DL, registration and insurance certificate in an envelope on the driver's sunshade. When ordered to pull over, acknowledge the order and proceed to where YOU feel safe exiting your car. Secure, exit and lock your car with papers in hand and keys pocketed. Meet the officer at the curbside front of your vehicle. Do not give him reason or opportunity for an extra-legal sniff and peek inside your car.

If you are a Concealed Carry Licensee, leave your gun visible on the seat in the locked car for his safety. Not carrying and not carrying concealed moots §176.60(2g)(c).

Surrender your papers on his demand. Do not speak, what you say will be used against you. Decline every request but do not resist. If he thinks he has RAS/PC they will be orders.

Review §345.22 and §345.23.

Everything said there makes absolutely no sense to me! NONE! What happens when you leave DL on dash board in said envelope when in a store and inadvertently show your side arm? oops your papers are now in the car. So your saying un-holster your weapon when you are pulled over...seriously?? So your saying exit the vehicle when pulled over...seriously??

If you convince enough braindead people to do as you just suggested someone will eventually get taken to the ground for exiting the vehicle when the cop sees a holster on his side...empty or not...I'd be more worried if it was empty and I didn't know where the gun was. Or get them shot when they have a ND when un-holstering!! Jesus man did you think about that post...at all??

All those question marks are only there to show my disbelief in what you are saying and are not really asking you to explain so please feel free not to...please. My forehead cannot handle another facepalm today!
 
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Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Everything said there makes absolutely no sense to me! NONE!
Oh darn.

ETA som'at later, after fetching a glass of wine: I realize that you did not state a rule of law to engage OCDO Rule (5), but lets pretend just so you can really try to put me the old so and so in his place.

We can start with my premises, a careful reading of §345.22 & 23 and §175.60(2g)(c)
 
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Zeus

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
194
Location
Neenah
I have been pulled over only once since the new law went into effect. I had my DL and CCW ready when the officer approached. I returned his greeting politely and handed him both as suggested by Mas Ayoob. I kept my hands in plain sight and he asked if I was carrying today and I said yes and told him where it was. He was fine with that. He ran my license and returned to my truck to give me a warning for speeding which I knew I was and apologized for doing so, being in an unfamiliar area where the speed was quite slow(25mph). We then proceeded to BS about the military (he saw my Semper Fi window decal) and guns etc. He was also a SIG guy and retired military. He said he was riding the cop thing out for a few more years and liked the job. This was a Grand Chute officer. All in all a good stop IMO and I never offered anything that wasn't necessary except some might argue my CCW. I have no desire to argue about it. I don't believe I need a CCW to carry in the first place, per 2A, but I have better things to do than create a sh!t storm over a piece of paper that I paid $50 to get, to hide it like a golden ticket.
The last thing I would like to throw in here is this. I don't begrudge anyone for how they look or dress or speak. I do however seem to have much less problems with LEO because I look, speak and dress much like they do off duty. Does this mean everyone should cut their hair, wear clean clothes, improve their posture and speak in a precise manner. Absolutely not. Just don't be surprised if a LEO treats you differently if you look like a hip hop star, biker or meth addict. It's human nature to pause and evaluate things different from ourselves. Also if I was an attractive female and the officer was male, I would be very polite and sweet and use my womanly charms to my advantage. Some women might get pissed about this comment but IMO it's just common sense. I would use whatever tools necessary at my disposal, short of degrading my self of course, to my advantage. It's worked for me so far, I see no reason to change. I have my flame retardant undies on so fire at will.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
First, why were you speeding? Second, why did you tell him you had a pistol on you? I have never voluntered and I have never been asked (though I know my CPL comes up when they run my drivers license) They have no reason to be interested in your weapon while at a traffic stop. A traffic infraction is an infraction, not a crime, therefore they have no legal reason to ask for, or handle either your license or your pistol.

I would file a civil rights violation complaint with the officers department. He had no legal need or right to do what he did. Remember, to disarm you they need resonable suspician of a CRIME...a traffic infraction does not qualify.

Oh, I don't think so.

You can check two federal cases. Michigan v Long and PA v Mimms. At the link below.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?55914-Get-Your-4th-and-5th-Amendment-Resources-Here
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Markush, 'Mimms', cited below, directly addresses exiting the vehicle.

"It was apparently - Page 434 U. S. 110 - his practice to order all drivers out of their vehicles as a matter of course whenever they had been stopped for a traffic violation. The State argues that this practice was adopted as a precautionary measure to afford a degree of protection to the officer, and that it may be justified on that ground. Establishing a face-to-face confrontation diminishes the possibility, otherwise substantial, that the driver can make unobserved movements; this, in turn, reduces the likelihood that the officer will be the victim of an assault."

Oh, I don't think so.

You can check two federal cases. Michigan v Long and PA v Mimms. At the link below.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?55914-Get-Your-4th-and-5th-Amendment-Resources-Here

Searching for the parameters of a Wisconsin officer's "lawful order," there are none that I found more particular than "constitutionality." It will be interesting to read of the constitutionality of orders contrary in one state to another, PA in the Mimms case and Wisconsin in our hypothetical at hand.

A local law enFORCER has threatened to cite me for not complying with his lawful order to remain in my vehicle for my safety. My most recent traffic stop was in 1977 (in my 1973 Porsche 911E Targa), I see no reason to expect one within the next 35 years.
 
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Snake161

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Wisconsin
I thought it was clearly stated in the concealed carry pamphlet that you are required when driving to notify the officer, whether that be handing him your CCL with your license and insurance, or just telling him you are carrying. I guess I may have read that wrong?
 

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
I thought it was clearly stated in the concealed carry pamphlet that you are required when driving to notify the officer, whether that be handing him your CCL with your license and insurance, or just telling him you are carrying. I guess I may have read that wrong?

It is recommended, not required.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
It is recommended, not required.

We have only the rights that we use and defend.
Wisconsin Constitution Article I Declaration of Rights

Searches and seizures. SECTION 11. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated; and no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
Keep your DL, registration and insurance certificate in an envelope on the driver's sunshade. When ordered to pull over, acknowledge the order and proceed to where YOU feel safe exiting your car. Secure, exit and lock your car with papers in hand and keys pocketed. Meet the officer at the curbside front of your vehicle. Do not give him reason or opportunity for an extra-legal sniff and peek inside your car.

If you are a Concealed Carry Licensee, leave your gun visible on the seat in the locked car for his safety. Not carrying and not carrying concealed moots §176.60(2g)(c).

Surrender your papers on his demand. Do not speak, what you say will be used against you. Decline every request but do not resist. If he thinks he has RAS/PC they will be orders.

Review §345.22 and §345.23.

Though in the past it was fairly routine for drivers to exit their cars, LEOs do NOT want you getting out of the car these days and will usually tell you to get back in your car, hands visible. Probably due to perps making the LEOs feel threatened by such a (seemingly) aggressive action.
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
Though in the past it was fairly routine for drivers to exit their cars, LEOs do NOT want you getting out of the car these days and will usually tell you to get back in your car, hands visible. Probably due to perps making the LEOs feel threatened by such a (seemingly) aggressive action.

Ever since I've been able to drive (30 yrs), if anyone ever got out of the car I/we were ALWAYS ordered back in.

The LAST thing I'm going to do is reach for my concealed firearm during a traffic stop. That is just insane.

And if asked to exit the vehicle lock your keys inside the car. You have a spare set hidden right?
 
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