• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Federal judge dismisses Shepard vs Madigan RTC suit. Appeal will be filed shortly.

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
In a 19 page opinion released Friday district judge William D. Stiehl dismissed the action. Judge Stiehl issued the following:

IV. CONCLUSION
Accordingly, the Court FINDS that the plaintiffs’ claim that the provisions of the State of
Illinois’ Unlawful Use of a Handgun and Aggravated Unlawful Use of a Handgun statutes do not
violate the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution because the bearing of a
firearm outside the home is not a core right protected by the Second Amendment.
Therefore, the Court GRANTS defendants’ motions to dismiss pursuant to Fed. R. Civ.
P. 12(b)(6) for failure to state a claim, and plaintiffs’ complaint is DISMISSED. The Court
GRANTS defendants’ motion to cite supplemental authority (Doc. 55). All remaining motions
are DENIED as moot.

In my opinion the judge has made a decision that your fundamental right to protect your life outside your home is not protected at all. In his world Strict scrutiny will apply in the home and no scrutiny of any law will apply outside the home.

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=7983
 

jt59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Central South Sound
In a 19 page opinion released Friday district judge William D. Stiehl dismissed the action. Judge Stiehl issued the following:



In my opinion the judge has made a decision that your fundamental right to protect your life outside your home is not protected at all. In his world Strict scrutiny will apply in the home and no scrutiny of any law will apply outside the home.

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=7983

Hopefully, enough interest and money will be generated to get this "core" question up to SCOTUS. The political climate of this state continues, unabashedly.
 

CrimsonSoul

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
144
Location
, ,
I'm still trying to figure out how to interpret "shall not be infringed" as "only inside your home"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I wonder if the judge wanted it to go to SCOTUS. Either to dodge the question, or get an even more broadly applicable pro-gun ruling. If not, he played right into the pro-gunners hands, because if SCOTUS rules a core right to carry outside the home, then it is going to be applicable nationwide.

What if SCOTUS rules its not a core right to carry outside the home, you might ask? HA! Remember the nationwide uproar over Kelo vs New Haven, the case just a few years ago where SCOTUS said eminent domain no longer meant private property could be seized only for public use, but could be seized for private use if there was a public benefit, too. There was a huge uproar over that wrongheaded ruling. A number of state legislatures enacted laws to protect property owners.

Imagine the uproar if SCOTUS ruled bearing arms meant only in your own home.
 

Superlite27

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,277
Location
God's Country, Missouri
I wonder if the judge wanted it to go to SCOTUS. Either to dodge the question, or get an even more broadly applicable pro-gun ruling. If not, he played right into the pro-gunners hands.....

+1

The fact that the judge uses wording almost exactly along the lines left vague by the degree of scrutiny in Heller makes me think he's either 1) an anti-gunner who wants to smugly point out that Heller only applies inside the home, or 2) pro-gun and wants this to go to SCOTUS in order to address the passive question the scrutiny in Heller raised. (i.e. Where do boundaries for constitutional rights exist, if at all? If you have an individual right to posess a firearm inside the home, what limits the application of constitutionality? Do constitutional rights end at your doorstep?)

The stark way in which the judge phrased his dismissal leads me to lean toward option 2. I would think that if an anti-2A judge wanted to dismiss this case and have it go away forever, he wouldn't want to shine a spotlight on unresolved issues by painting it in such clearly defined and specific terms, and then smacking pro-2A supporters in the face with it as if it were a gauntlet.

Hopefully, someone picks up the gauntlet and agrees to meet on the field at noon regardless of either way the ruling was intended by the judge.

ETA: Maybe someone could offer an opinion on what the outcome of the appeal will encompass? Is the level of appeal SCOTUS since this is a federal judge, or does it go to the muckety-muck court of appeals first? If overturned by the appeals court, what will the effect be? I guess, to summarize: I'm not familiar with the appeal process. What is the next step, and what will the effect be if ruled in our favor?
 
Last edited:

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
+1

The fact that the judge uses wording almost exactly along the lines left vague by the degree of scrutiny in Heller makes me think he's either 1) an anti-gunner who wants to smugly point out that Heller only applies inside the home, or 2) pro-gun and wants this to go to SCOTUS in order to address the passive question the scrutiny in Heller raised. (i.e. Where do boundaries for constitutional rights exist, if at all? If you have an individual right to posess a firearm inside the home, what limits the application of constitutionality? Do constitutional rights end at your doorstep?)

The stark way in which the judge phrased his dismissal leads me to lean toward option 2. I would think that if an anti-2A judge wanted to dismiss this case and have it go away forever, he wouldn't want to shine a spotlight on unresolved issues by painting it in such clearly defined and specific terms, and then smacking pro-2A supporters in the face with it as if it were a gauntlet.

Hopefully, someone picks up the gauntlet and agrees to meet on the field at noon regardless of either way the ruling was intended by the judge.

ETA: Maybe someone could offer an opinion on what the outcome of the appeal will encompass? Is the level of appeal SCOTUS since this is a federal judge, or does it go to the muckety-muck court of appeals first? If overturned by the appeals court, what will the effect be? I guess, to summarize: I'm not familiar with the appeal process. What is the next step, and what will the effect be if ruled in our favor?

On to the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals. The same court that OVERTURNED Chicago'S range ban.
 

Superlite27

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,277
Location
God's Country, Missouri
...and when they overturn it, it will mean everyone can carry in any manner they choose in Illinois. Defacto constitutional carry!

I wonder how this will affect reciprocity with other states?
 

jrj_51

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
62
Location
Michigan
...and when they overturn it, it will mean everyone can carry in any manner they choose in Illinois. Defacto constitutional carry!

I wonder how this will affect reciprocity with other states?

Whatever it means for reciprocity, it would mean I would finally feel comfortable moving back home.
 
Top