CheerfulHoplite
Regular Member
For discussion purposes:
1) Being one of those unfortunate folks who was wooed by the advertising charms of "big tobacco", you're standing outside a 'mom-n-pop' store enjoying a very nice afternoon and having a smoke before going inside to do some shopping.
2) You're known by name by all of the staff of said store, and because of conversations in the past, there is absolutely no question that they are completely aware that when you walk in, it's a near certainty that you've got a gun on your belt, regardless of whether it's actually visible on any given visit - Point being made with this detail is that there are exactly two chances that one of them is going to drop a dime on you as a "big-ol-scary MWAG" - "Slim" and "None". And Slim was seen leaving town earlier this morning.
3) The store in question is literally across the street from a high school (Important detail due to the wad of worthless feel-good stupidity often called the GFSZA - Doncha just LOVE how well that one worked in preventing those little dust-ups at Columbine and VA Tech?)
4) You do have a valid WA CPL on your person, although you're not choosing to conceal right now.
5) You are indeed armed, and your weapon is clearly visible to all and sundry.
As you enjoy your nicotine fix and the lovely afternoon, you notice a "full-dress" police car roll past the store. It's moving rather fast, although there are no lights or sirens involved - your immediate thought is "Hmmm... musta got a call". It disappears around the corner of the building. A few seconds later, a "low-profile" cop car comes up the cross-street, not "code 3", but like the first, definitely moving a bit faster than "casual patrol" would suggest. "Wonder what's up?" you think. You watch as it goes by, then you turn to toss your butt in the store's can before stepping inside, only to notice that the first car you saw has pulled into the lot via the side entrance, apparently cruised around the back of the building, and is now coming up the side of the building tward you. Turn again, and there's the "sneaky" one - he's pulled a U-turn and is now coming in the other driveway of the store. And both are clearly aiming at you in a "box-in" type maneuver.
"Officer Full-Dress" piles his ride in the middle of the store's traffic flow to your right. "Officer Low-Profile" does the same thing on your left. Uh-oh... things are looking ominous for our hero - tune in next week for the exciting conclu... oh, wait, slipped into radio cliff-hanger mode for a second there...
"Officer Full-Dress" approaches you with hand on gun but not drawn, and opens the conversation with (in essence) "You ain't planning to shoot me, are you?"
"Nope - no reason to bother" is your reply. Meanwhile, "Officer Low-Profile" has exited his car and is approaching in a manner that's probably best described as "I'm being sneaky, but I'm trying to look like I'm not *REALLY* being sneaky" and takes a position that's rather - Hmmm... Let's say "nervous-making" for lack of a better way to put it - and proceeds to just hover there while "Officer Full-Dress" handles the contact.
Long and short of it, "Our Boys In Blue" (never mind that it's actually Khaki - you get the idea, right?) want to do the typical "Lemme see your ID, are you a crook, why do you have a gun?" cop routine, claiming that they've gotten a 911 call about a man with a gun.
Ignoring the whole "These guys could shoot/arrest/severely inconvenience me" concept, is cooperation *LEGALLY* required in such a situation?
My own thought on the topic is that they ought to be talking to the caller about misuse of 911, giving a false report, or something along those lines, not pestering the guy standing there having a smoke and doing exactly nothing wrong. If it were a case of "There's a guy shooting up the store!" (or the school...) I'd have to agree that it's pretty clear cut - "Drop yer donuts and roll!" but "There's a guy with a gun in front of the store" should, IMO, result in a 911 conversation similar to "What's he doing?" "He's standing there smoking a cigarette." "That's perfectly legal, have a nice day." "But he's got a gun!" "Is he shooting anybody or anything?" "No, but he's got a gun!" "So? That's perfectly legal."
What says the forum?
Oh, you missed next week's episode? Here's the quick version of how things turned out:
"Officer Low-Profile" never spoke a word - just stood there trying (and failing) to look grim and imposing - obviously trying to play the "heavy" - a performance which was rather poor, IMO - he was too "Barney Fife"-ish (tall, kinda scrawny, sort of nervous looking - Perhaps a rookie?) to make it convincing. "Officer Full-Dress" should have been the one in that role. Our Hero decided that discretion was the better part of valor and cooperated, but clearly (I like to think, anyway) indicating that the entire contact was a waste of time and taxpayer dollars, and, in the end, went about his business. "Officer Full-Dress" seemed to be clued about the legality of open carry, and during the chit-chat that ensued while waiting for the ID/CPL verification, said that he was aware of OCDO, and actually seemed a bit embarrassed to be giving me a hard time, but since it was a 911 call and so close to the school, claimed he was obligated to at least make the contact/check ID, etc. - A concept I couldn't really figure out a way to argue with, to be honest. Hence, this post - I still can't decide if I should have (politely, of course) told them to go pound sand.
1) Being one of those unfortunate folks who was wooed by the advertising charms of "big tobacco", you're standing outside a 'mom-n-pop' store enjoying a very nice afternoon and having a smoke before going inside to do some shopping.
2) You're known by name by all of the staff of said store, and because of conversations in the past, there is absolutely no question that they are completely aware that when you walk in, it's a near certainty that you've got a gun on your belt, regardless of whether it's actually visible on any given visit - Point being made with this detail is that there are exactly two chances that one of them is going to drop a dime on you as a "big-ol-scary MWAG" - "Slim" and "None". And Slim was seen leaving town earlier this morning.
3) The store in question is literally across the street from a high school (Important detail due to the wad of worthless feel-good stupidity often called the GFSZA - Doncha just LOVE how well that one worked in preventing those little dust-ups at Columbine and VA Tech?)
4) You do have a valid WA CPL on your person, although you're not choosing to conceal right now.
5) You are indeed armed, and your weapon is clearly visible to all and sundry.
As you enjoy your nicotine fix and the lovely afternoon, you notice a "full-dress" police car roll past the store. It's moving rather fast, although there are no lights or sirens involved - your immediate thought is "Hmmm... musta got a call". It disappears around the corner of the building. A few seconds later, a "low-profile" cop car comes up the cross-street, not "code 3", but like the first, definitely moving a bit faster than "casual patrol" would suggest. "Wonder what's up?" you think. You watch as it goes by, then you turn to toss your butt in the store's can before stepping inside, only to notice that the first car you saw has pulled into the lot via the side entrance, apparently cruised around the back of the building, and is now coming up the side of the building tward you. Turn again, and there's the "sneaky" one - he's pulled a U-turn and is now coming in the other driveway of the store. And both are clearly aiming at you in a "box-in" type maneuver.
"Officer Full-Dress" piles his ride in the middle of the store's traffic flow to your right. "Officer Low-Profile" does the same thing on your left. Uh-oh... things are looking ominous for our hero - tune in next week for the exciting conclu... oh, wait, slipped into radio cliff-hanger mode for a second there...
"Officer Full-Dress" approaches you with hand on gun but not drawn, and opens the conversation with (in essence) "You ain't planning to shoot me, are you?"
"Nope - no reason to bother" is your reply. Meanwhile, "Officer Low-Profile" has exited his car and is approaching in a manner that's probably best described as "I'm being sneaky, but I'm trying to look like I'm not *REALLY* being sneaky" and takes a position that's rather - Hmmm... Let's say "nervous-making" for lack of a better way to put it - and proceeds to just hover there while "Officer Full-Dress" handles the contact.
Long and short of it, "Our Boys In Blue" (never mind that it's actually Khaki - you get the idea, right?) want to do the typical "Lemme see your ID, are you a crook, why do you have a gun?" cop routine, claiming that they've gotten a 911 call about a man with a gun.
Ignoring the whole "These guys could shoot/arrest/severely inconvenience me" concept, is cooperation *LEGALLY* required in such a situation?
My own thought on the topic is that they ought to be talking to the caller about misuse of 911, giving a false report, or something along those lines, not pestering the guy standing there having a smoke and doing exactly nothing wrong. If it were a case of "There's a guy shooting up the store!" (or the school...) I'd have to agree that it's pretty clear cut - "Drop yer donuts and roll!" but "There's a guy with a gun in front of the store" should, IMO, result in a 911 conversation similar to "What's he doing?" "He's standing there smoking a cigarette." "That's perfectly legal, have a nice day." "But he's got a gun!" "Is he shooting anybody or anything?" "No, but he's got a gun!" "So? That's perfectly legal."
What says the forum?
Oh, you missed next week's episode? Here's the quick version of how things turned out:
"Officer Low-Profile" never spoke a word - just stood there trying (and failing) to look grim and imposing - obviously trying to play the "heavy" - a performance which was rather poor, IMO - he was too "Barney Fife"-ish (tall, kinda scrawny, sort of nervous looking - Perhaps a rookie?) to make it convincing. "Officer Full-Dress" should have been the one in that role. Our Hero decided that discretion was the better part of valor and cooperated, but clearly (I like to think, anyway) indicating that the entire contact was a waste of time and taxpayer dollars, and, in the end, went about his business. "Officer Full-Dress" seemed to be clued about the legality of open carry, and during the chit-chat that ensued while waiting for the ID/CPL verification, said that he was aware of OCDO, and actually seemed a bit embarrassed to be giving me a hard time, but since it was a 911 call and so close to the school, claimed he was obligated to at least make the contact/check ID, etc. - A concept I couldn't really figure out a way to argue with, to be honest. Hence, this post - I still can't decide if I should have (politely, of course) told them to go pound sand.
