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Thread: SCOTUS upholds strip-search on arrest.

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    SCOTUS upholds strip-search on arrest.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...y.html?hpid=z2

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-945.pdf 243 KB 41 pages

    The Supreme Court ruled Monday that those arrested for even minor violations may be strip-searched before being admitted to jail, saying safety concerns outweigh personal privacy rights.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    I'm not saying I agree, and I didn't read all of the info but wasn't there some clown who managed to get some publicity after having been found with a .38 up his a$$?

    In any case if the cops suspect you packed stuff in there, they can get a warrant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post

    In any case if the cops suspect you packed stuff in there, they can get a warrant.
    Exactly.

    Those who have been convicted of no crime are citizens with rights to be protected. Through personal experience, I have seen police arrest citizens simply for contempt-of-cop, knowing full well that whatever B.S. charges they lay won't stick. The thought of the thousands of citizens arrested every year by rogue cops for exercising constitutional freedoms being subjected to degrading strip-searches literally sickens me. Can you imagine being arrested on a bogus disorderly conduct, unlawful concealment, or unsafe handling charge and being forced to undress and allow thugs in government-issued costumes to inspect your body? I certainly hope I am never placed in that situation, because I can foresee no other path than total resistance.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Exactly.

    Those who have been convicted of no crime are citizens with rights to be protected. Through personal experience, I have seen police arrest citizens simply for contempt-of-cop, knowing full well that whatever B.S. charges they lay won't stick. The thought of the thousands of citizens arrested every year by rogue cops for exercising constitutional freedoms being subjected to degrading strip-searches literally sickens me. Can you imagine being arrested on a bogus disorderly conduct, unlawful concealment, or unsafe handling charge and being forced to undress and allow thugs in government-issued costumes to inspect your body? I certainly hope I am never placed in that situation, because I can foresee no other path than total resistance.
    I have seen people arrested for nothing more than being an idiot. Doing so in the face of an idiot cop is a sure way to go to jail. They will trump up a charge just because you pissed them off, knowing somewhere along the way it cost you money.

    That's why I don't piss them off. I stay away from situations I can get thrown in jail for. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who dig their own graves.

    That said, they should have to get a warrant if they suspect you're holding something, and at the point of getting you to jail they should be able to get one easily.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    I have seen people arrested for nothing more than being an idiot. Doing so in the face of an idiot cop is a sure way to go to jail. They will trump up a charge just because you pissed them off, knowing somewhere along the way it cost you money.

    That's why I don't piss them off. I stay away from situations I can get thrown in jail for. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who dig their own graves.

    That said, they should have to get a warrant if they suspect you're holding something, and at the point of getting you to jail they should be able to get one easily.
    Unfortunately, people have been arrested for mere legal open-carrying while conducting official business (sudden valley gunner comes to mind immediately). It's always easy to point at some idiot Occupier and laugh when he gets hauled off for being a *******, but when the police are allowed to ignore the law in dealing with some citizens, no one's rights are safe.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    I'm not saying I agree, and I didn't read all of the info but wasn't there some clown who managed to get some publicity after having been found with a .38 up his a$$?

    In any case if the cops suspect you packed stuff in there, they can get a warrant.
    Nice pansy-footing around the 5-4 (Conservative) decision.

    I figured strip-searching was typical when you are booked into jail; at least it seems to be the case in Seattle (I was strip searched).

    As for the guy who managed to get a .38 (snubby?..I sure hope!..but even then!) up his keester...well, he must really be a big supporter of the Second Amendment; or is he pushing a new line of holsters?
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-04-2012 at 11:59 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    I have seen people arrested for nothing more than being an idiot. Doing so in the face of an idiot cop is a sure way to go to jail. They will trump up a charge just because you pissed them off, knowing somewhere along the way it cost you money.

    That's why I don't piss them off. I stay away from situations I can get thrown in jail for. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who dig their own graves.

    That said, they should have to get a warrant if they suspect you're holding something, and at the point of getting you to jail they should be able to get one easily.
    Personally, I always thank the officer for the ticket, and tell him/her to have a Nice Day.

    You know, I expected to jump into this thread reading you going-off on Conservative Justices being part of the anti-American, anti-Liberty Machine.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You know, I expected to jump into this thread reading you going-off on Conservative Justices being part of the anti-American, anti-Liberty Machine.
    No, conservatives have no interest in defendant rights, because they're convinced it's impossible for them ever to be defendants. In the conservative mind, if a cop takes notice of you, you had it coming, you're already guilty, and you've sacrificed all your rights, no matter what you did or didn't do.

    (In the liberal mind, of course, if you have more money than someone else, you've sacrificed all your rights, no matter how you got the money.)
    Last edited by ()pen(arry; 04-04-2012 at 12:19 PM.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    No, conservatives have no interest in defendant rights, because they're convinced it's impossible for them ever to be defendants. In the conservative mind, if a cop takes notice of you, you had it coming, you're already guilty, and you've sacrificed all your rights, no matter what you did or didn't do.

    (In the liberal mind, of course, if you have more money than someone else, you've sacrificed all your rights, no matter how you got the money.)
    I agree, particularly with the latter. The wealthy ought to have the piss taxed out of them--I should have that as my signature.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  10. #10
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I agree, particularly with the latter. The wealthy ought to have the piss taxed out of them--I should have that as my signature.
    True progressivism has spoken there.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    True progressivism has spoken there.
    Did I ever deny having Progressive opinions? Also, there is no True Progressivism, nor Progressivist.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So sorry that you folks are all hurt over this decision, but it merely follows a long chain of decisions revolving around the concept of "legitimate penological interest" in operating the corrections system. Just as the SC is loathe to second-guess the cop on the street, they feel the same about those who run the jails/prisons.

    Not very long ago strip searches were not generally performed on those arrested for misdemeanant arrestees. Circumstances and events changed that policy/procedure, and the jail/prison administrators here presented a good case of explaining why. Having been able to articulate their reasons and convince the SC that it was being applied equitably (here meaning to everybod as opposed to selectively) the SC pretty much followed sare decisis in reaching this ruling.

    It ought to be noted that the appellant pretty much sunk his own case by virtue of the remedy he sought. Asking the court to impose a set of rules/regulations/guidelines/write policy & procedure is asking them to do something they have repeatedly said was both beyond their reach and what they dearly wished to avoid. The SC interprets the law and sets boundaries where none were previously established, but despises with a passion the notion of telling folks how to actually perform their job at the nitty-gritty level.

    stay safe.
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  13. #13
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Noah Feldman, professor of law at Harvard, analysis

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...n-privacy.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Excerpt
    The short answer is that Kennedy couldn’t find a violation of dignity for the petitioner because almost everyone committed to a jail or prison gets similar treatment. (Some states have banned the practice after minor arrests.) Every arrest, even for major offenses, is supposed to take place on the basis of suspicion, not proven guilt. Everyone in jail is equally presumed innocent until proven guilty at trial -- or until he or she admits guilt in a plea bargain. To find that all of these people are having their most basic rights violated every day would have been too disruptive to the basic practices of American criminal justice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    The thinking he outlines is exactly the problem with this country. In any contest between the rights of the individual and the so-called needs of the State, the State is the one who should lose out. I would much rather accept the risk of the occasional weapon being smuggled in a miscreant's rear end than the possibility that an upright citizen be subjected to humiliating and degrading treatment because the State's hired monkeys didn't know the law and decided to make a false arrest.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    The thinking he outlines is exactly the problem with this country. In any contest between the rights of the individual and the so-called needs of the State, the State is the one who should lose out. I would much rather accept the risk of the occasional weapon being smuggled in a miscreant's rear end than the possibility that an upright citizen be subjected to humiliating and degrading treatment because the State's hired monkeys didn't know the law and decided to make a false arrest.
    Now you just being dramatic. Strip-searches are not humiliating, nor degrading. I have been strip-searched after being booked into jail, and didn't at all feel humiliated or degraded. The experience was professional--I stripped my clothes off in an enclosed room, and one female officer came into the room, and 'examined' me for contraband (no touching, just observing). From what I understand there are even less invasive methods (if one considers a strip-search invasive), such as (if necessary): X-ray.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Now you just being dramatic. Strip-searches are not humiliating, nor degrading. I have been strip-searched after being booked into jail, and didn't at all feel humiliated or degraded. The experience was professional--I stripped my clothes off in an enclosed room, and one female officer came into the room, and 'examined' me for contraband (no touching, just observing). From what I understand there are even less invasive methods (if one considers a strip-search invasive), such as (if necessary): X-ray.
    Not surprising at all. You are a willing sheep who believes the concept of individual rights to be a fiction. You believe that all individuals are simply livestock to be utilized by the State as it sees fit. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being, but I take great joy in knowing how much the sentiments of liberty expressed on this forum must pain you. Statements like the one above, plus the fact that you keep coming back for more, lend evidence to you being a masochistic brand of authoritarian statist. However, there are several other flavors that fit you, as well.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Anyone who thinks having her body forcibly examined by an armed employee of the State is not a humiliating or degrading experience has a mental problem and should be permanently institutionalized where her needs for total control can be best met.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 04-09-2012 at 08:34 PM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Haha love that cartoon Im just going to post it and circle the ones I think someone is being.

    States interest was just a statist invention of the courts to rule in favor of more government intrusion. It is unconstitutional in my opinion.

    It's used in our state even though our state constitutions explicitly says that the jobs of those in authority are to protect individual rights.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    It's used in our state even though our state constitutions explicitly says that the jobs of those in authority are to protect individual rights.
    ROFL ... they are just words dude .. gov't ain't around to protect your rights, only to take them away

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Not surprising at all. You are a willing sheep who believes the concept of individual rights to be a fiction. You believe that all individuals are simply livestock to be utilized by the State as it sees fit. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being, but I take great joy in knowing how much the sentiments of liberty expressed on this forum must pain you. Statements like the one above, plus the fact that you keep coming back for more, lend evidence to you being a masochistic brand of authoritarian statist. However, there are several other flavors that fit you, as well. [snip] Anyone who thinks having her body forcibly examined by an armed employee of the State is not a humiliating or degrading experience has a mental problem and should be permanently institutionalized where her needs for total control can be best met.
    First, there are no fundamental rights, there are only premises, and it seems most of the time those premises are purported to be derived from some sort of principles. I have stated that the State can do what it wants to an individual, with impunity; I did not state that I agree with what the State does. Liberty is nothing more than a notion. Apparently you have not been booked into Seattle jail. Here in Seattle at least--I suspect it may be the case in most cities, and States--jail staff are not armed with firearms; at least, the jail staff that I had seen during my three days in jail were not armed. I have never stated that I support the State, nor any Institution exerting control over individuals but they do. And in some instances the State, and Institutions ought to exert control over certain individuals, IMO--Gary Ridgway comes to mind.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    First, there are no fundamental rights, there are only premises, and it seems most of the time those premises are purported to be derived from some sort of principles. I have stated that the State can do what it wants to an individual, with impunity; I did not state that I agree with what the State does. Liberty is nothing more than a notion. Apparently you have not been booked into Seattle jail. Here in Seattle at least--I suspect it may be the case in most cities, and States--jail staff are not armed with firearms; at least, the jail staff that I had seen during my three days in jail were not armed. I have never stated that I support the State, nor any Institution exerting control over individuals but they do. And in some instances the State, and Institutions ought to exert control over certain individuals, IMO--Gary Ridgway comes to mind.
    Well then proposition 8 shouldn't have been overturned right?

    It should be ok if some states want to outlaw homosexuality? Right?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I agree, particularly with the latter. The wealthy ought to have the piss taxed out of them--I should have that as my signature.
    Can you define "wealthy"? Do you differentiate it from "rich"? What about from "high income"? Can you also define "the piss"?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Well then proposition 8 shouldn't have been overturned right?

    It should be ok if some states want to outlaw homosexuality? Right?
    Howdy!
    Well, consider if you will, all of them have laws against nudity.
    Strip search okay, nudity not?

    We've had presidents of the USA that were fond of skinny dipping in the Potomac.
    Citizens today face jail for the same behavior.
    Where they... ironically,.... face strip search when arrested.

    Makes perfect sense to me!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  23. #23
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Well then proposition 8 shouldn't have been overturned right? It should be ok if some states want to outlaw homosexuality? Right?
    All are possible; each have happened. The interesting thing is the State, and the Federal Government (Judiciary) are striking down anti-homosexual laws, while the people keep pushing for them to be implemented. I wonder now: who ought I trust more: The Federal Government and/or the State, or The People?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  24. #24
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Can you define "wealthy"? Do you differentiate it from "rich"? What about from "high income"? Can you also define "the piss"?
    *Closes eyes...throws dart* Anyone who makes over five hundred thousand dollars per year; including stock options, and any other 'beni.' Okay, so, Romney made something like twenty-five million dollars through his investments. Romney ought to pay fifty percent, for starters.--I really want one of those huge seventy inch flat-screen televisions they have at Costco!
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    *Closes eyes...throws dart* Anyone who makes over five hundred thousand dollars per year; including stock options, and any other 'beni.' Okay, so, Romney made something like twenty-five million dollars through his investments. Romney ought to pay fifty percent, for starters.--I really want one of those huge seventy inch flat-screen televisions they have at Costco!
    So the high income, not the wealthy? Fifty percent marginal from 500k+, or overall sum? Should the 500k be mitigated by any other things, e.g. outstanding college loans, mortgage to a certain amount, kids with school tuition, etc?

    When you say stock options, do you actually mean the option, or the net gain of the option?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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