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pistol loaded with cop-killer bullets, cops say

Superlite27

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God's Country, Missouri
I'd ask him, "So using bullets that are designed to expand within their target are bad"?

And when he inevitably affirms this, simply follow up with...

"So you recommend using fully jacketed bullets that remain intact and go through the target and kill innocent bystanders in addition to the target?".

Cop killer bullets. As If regular round nose bullets are harmless.

Another question someone needs to ask him: "What bullet stands a better chance of penetrating body armor, one that expands on impact like a hollow point, or one that retains its pointy shape better like a common FMJ?"
 

OC for ME

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<snip> ETA: I wonder if military police can carry HPs on U.S. bases, as they would be serving a domestic, law-enforcement function?
I don't know about that, today, but when I was in service pistols were loaded with service ammo, FMJs.

MPs are not domestic LE, they are military 'LE'. Technically they are not even LE. But, that was some years ago, it could very well be that they do get some sort of state certification these days.
 

robert1970

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idaho
cop killer bullets

I may be wrong,but wasent hallowpoints originally developed for the police? seems like at one time the standard police load was a 38 special 158 grain lead round nose bullet that was shooting right through there target and not stoping the felon,so the hollowpoint was developed.
 

DocWalker

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You can thank the Hague Convention for that. Using hollow-points or other expanding ammunition for military purposes is a war crime.

Not saying I agree, but it is what it is...

ETA: I wonder if military police can carry HPs on U.S. bases, as they would be serving a domestic, law-enforcement function?

Up until last year I worked part time as a contract officer at a USAF base gate. We as contractors carried 30 rounds of Hollow Point ammo, 15 in the pistol and an extra clip while on duty. The Active Duty Security Forces had to use FMJ. Of course some of them carried M-16 with the 223 (full auto) which made my 30 rounds of 9mm hollow points less of a treat if someone tried something at the gate....lol
 

JoeSparky

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Up until last year I worked part time as a contract officer at a USAF base gate. We as contractors carried 30 rounds of Hollow Point ammo, 15 in the pistol and an extra clip while on duty. The Active Duty Security Forces had to use FMJ. Of course some of them carried M-16 with the 223 (full auto) which made my 30 rounds of 9mm hollow points less of a treat if someone tried something at the gate....lol

I know you KNOW this but did you carry "CLIPS" for your Semi-Auto or were the cartridges contained within "MAGAZINES"?
 
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Gil223

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What in Sam Hill is "bottom basement ammunition/" cuz I've never heard of it!!!

"Bottom basement" is a term that's a bit dated - as in "not used much anymore". My parents and grandparents used it to describe the cheapest of any item of a given type that could be found (I think it was old Sam Hill that coined the term). ;) Today it would probably describe items that the Dollar Tree Store wouldn't even try to sell. Pax...
 
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Dreamer

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Up until last year I worked part time as a contract officer at a USAF base gate. We as contractors carried 30 rounds of Hollow Point ammo, 15 in the pistol and an extra clip while on duty. The Active Duty Security Forces had to use FMJ. Of course some of them carried M-16 with the 223 (full auto) which made my 30 rounds of 9mm hollow points less of a treat if someone tried something at the gate....lol


Does anyone else find it mildly ironic (and a little creepy) that the private mercenaries guarding our military bases can use hollowpoints (presumably against US citizens) but our own military is forbidden under international law to use such ammo against it's enemies in combat?

Just sayin'...
 
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j4l

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Wow. Im more than a little startled at the mis-understood "values" of hollow-points in here. From that many folks who are intending to carry?
Hollow points are all well and good-and have thier place. But they arent magic. Depending on the round/make, etc. most rarely actually expand, or expand fully -in human tissue vs. gel or other media in "tests".
When they do- great, sometimes, if they pen deep enough first before dumping everything. When they dont expand- how do they behave? Just like an FMJ, for the most part.
So you can blast away at Joe BadGUY with your hollow-points, maybe even see some excellent shot-placement under the circumstances (highly unlikely),but even half of the rounds fired fail to expand....you may as well be using FMJ.

Yes, modern rounds are "better" than they used to be, by far. But.. to hang that much faith, exclusively, on JHP, one might find his/herself a bit surprised when one of his Super-Duper/Hyper-Expanding JHP-O-Rama rounds fails to expand...
or, maybe not. The "over-penetration" thing is actually a lot less likely, and a lot less common (provided solid torso hits are made) than the manufacturers and their marketing personnel would like you-the consumer of their higher-end (more-profitable) products would like you to believe.
 

Aknazer

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You can thank the Hague Convention for that. Using hollow-points or other expanding ammunition for military purposes is a war crime.

Not saying I agree, but it is what it is...

ETA: I wonder if military police can carry HPs on U.S. bases, as they would be serving a domestic, law-enforcement function?

I don't know if all MPs carry JHPs for stateside base defense in their M9s, but I do know that at least some of them are issued JHPs for use when at a stateside base (I don't know if the MPs at non-deployed overseas bases can use JHPs, but I think they can't).
 

Gil223

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Does anyone else find it mildly ironic (and a little creepy) that the private mercenaries guarding our military bases can use hollowpoints (presumably against US citizens) but our own military is forbidden under international law to use such ammo against it's enemies in combat?

Just sayin'...

Neither ironic nor creepy, since the private security contractor(s) are, themselves, "civilians". Therefore they are not governed or constrained by either the Hague Convention or military regulations... unless their contract specifies that they may load and carry only FMJ ammunition. Also, their JHPs will "presumably" be used - if/when necessary - against those unauthorized persons who attempt to penetrate our military installations, or when some other deadly threat is present. Pax...
 
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attrapereves

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Feb 12, 2012
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Missouri
I never understand why the choice of ammunition makes a hill of beans difference. If I shoot and kill someone with a JHP round instead of a FMJ round, they aren't any more dead than they would have been with the FMJ.

You don't get more time in jail for running someone over with a Mack truck vs a Geo Metro.
 

Jack House

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Jun 12, 2010
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Does anyone else find it mildly ironic (and a little creepy) that the private mercenaries guarding our military bases can use hollowpoints (presumably against US citizens) but our own military is forbidden under international law to use such ammo against it's enemies in combat?

Just sayin'...
I find it disappointing that so many people are misinformed about what exactly the Hague Convention does. The Hague Convention only forbids expanding ammunition when both parties to the conflict have signed and ratified the convention. To the best of my knowledge, the Hague Convention is the only treaty that bars the use of expanding ammunition.


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davidmcbeth

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I find it disappointing that so many people are misinformed about what exactly the Hague Convention does. The Hague Convention only forbids expanding ammunition when both parties to the conflict have signed and ratified the convention. To the best of my knowledge, the Hague Convention is the only treaty that bars the use of expanding ammunition.


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It also bars tear gas use ... something civilians can use. Just because the military cannot use it does not mean its extra dangerous .. its just something they agreed to limit the use of for whatever logical or non-logical reason
 
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