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Thread: Are CCW Legal Defense Lawyers/ Association Memberships a Wise Investment ?

  1. #1
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    Are CCW Legal Defense Lawyers/ Association Memberships a Wise Investment ?

    I was just looking thru a list of CCW Legal Defense Assoc's and was wondering, if any others out there in the "Carry" world believe if these "after you draw your firearm contact us" firms are really worth the investment of $95 - $300 yearly memberships.

    Also, are they a wise and legitimate investment or just extra "life insurance" for if/when an event may happen?

    Here are a few links which I've found,,,

    1-https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/

    2-http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/

    3-http://www.aggressivecriminaldefenselawfirm.com/CCW-Law-CPL-Law/

    4-http://www.slateandjones.com/sample/whyjoin.html


    Also, curious about Lobby group memberships,,

    1-http://www.saf.org/

    2-http://www.nationalgunrights.org/contact/

    3-http://gunowners.org/

    ...And any others that you might support/ be aware of that are reputable and worth the $$$.


    This site has LOTS of Info,>>> http://www.americanfirearms.org/<<<


    "You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive."

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    Paul J. Mattson
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    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
    CELL 232-7063

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Would like to see some testimonials from an actual situation where a membership has helped someone.
    Once more into the fray.
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
    Live and die on this day.
    Live and die on this day.



    "I knew one thing: as soon as anyone said you didn't need a gun, you'd better take one along that worked."
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    Maine CCW Legal Defense Connections ?

    I suppose, the main point of my original post, is to find out if there are any trustworthy and/or Certified CCW Defense Legal options out there in our fine state? If so, are they just a phone call away, in the unfortunate occurrence of an "Event", i.e., recent "Stand Your Ground" incident in Sanford Fla.?

  5. #5
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Why not let your personal attorney choose the criminal defense attorney that he trusts when you need one? A criminal defense attorney is likely too expensive to have on retainer. You should have a relationship with a personal attorney and carry his card for use when you need your rights and due process protected.

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    Thanks for the advise. I'm still curious though if those memberships in national groups like Slate & Jones are worth the money ?
    Any one have any further thoughts in this subject ?

    http://www.slateandjones.com/sample/coverage.html

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    Thanks for the advise. I'm still curious though if those memberships in national groups like Slate & Jones are worth the money ?
    Any one have any further thoughts in this subject ?

    http://www.slateandjones.com/sample/coverage.html
    Value received for value given. If you think about it you'll realize it would take a very high number of participants with a low ratio of claimants to make this a workable income stream for lawyers. Criminal defense cases can easily run into tens of thousands of dollars.

    I have yet to personally met anyone that has joined such a group.

    From what I have seen, these "insurers" to not provide an in depth, total defense response. What most (all?) do is to offer initial response and consul. The principals of such groups are also an unknown quality to me.

    Better IMVHO is to develop a relationship with a practitioner skilled in the field, carry his/her contact info and be very careful of what you say in the meanwhile. Hint: What you say can and will be use against you..........
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I would never hire a lawyer, I consider them the enemy.
    A lawyer is an officer of the court, his first duty is to the court.
    They are also members of the bar which is chartered in England.
    I am also not a 14th Amendment Subject of Congress, I am an
    American National with Unalienable Rights. A 14th Amendment citizen
    has Civil Rights given him by his Master....Congress, which can
    be taken away anytime.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    I would never hire a lawyer, I consider them the enemy.
    A lawyer is an officer of the court, his first duty is to the court.
    They are also members of the bar which is chartered in England.
    I am also not a 14th Amendment Subject of Congress, I am an
    American National with Unalienable Rights. A 14th Amendment citizen
    has Civil Rights given him by his Master....Congress, which can
    be taken away anytime.
    You would defend yourself on a serious felony charge?

    It is commonly said that the man that defends himself, has a fool for a client - no personal insult intended.

    IMO - a lawyer has a contractural agreement, moral and legal responsibilty, to provide an adequate defense.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Why do you have to get licenses and permits?
    I do not get Permits or Licenses for anything.....That way I do not consent to their jurisdiction.
    Wake up, do some research and learn what is happening in your country.



    One does not need to agree with the law to follow it. You scare me!
    "Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought."

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  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    I have come to the realization that Government weather Federal, State, or local are Private Corporations.
    27 CFR 72.11 all crimes in the United States are Commercial.
    The feds have the Uniform Commercial Code and in 1964 all states adopted their own UCC. And
    became agents of the federal Corporation.
    Erie Railroad v Thompkins (1938)- SC ruled there is no federal common law. Lawyers cannot bring caselaw
    older than 1938 into the court.
    What authority does the Corporate Government have over an American when the courts are Admiralty
    Jurisdiction which makes them International Contract Courts. Why do you have to get licenses and permits?
    I do not get Permits or Licenses for anything.....That way I do not consent to their jurisdiction.
    Wake up, do some research and learn what is happening in your country.
    This is better addressed in a separate thread where it does not hijack this one.

    Surprised that you presume to chastise me - this is first and foremost an open carry forum, not a soap box for political opinions/rants not specific to OC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    27 CFR 72.11 all crimes in the United States are Commercial.
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/72.11
    Quote Originally Posted by LII
    § 72.11
    Meaning of terms.
    As used in this part, unless the context otherwise requires, terms shall have the meanings ascribed in this section. Words in the plural form shall include the singular, and vice versa, and words importing the masculine gender shall include the feminine. The terms “includes” and “including” do not exclude things not enumerated which are in the same general class.
    [ ... ]
    Commercial crimes. Any of the following types of crimes (Federal or State): Offenses against the revenue laws; burglary; counterfeiting; forgery; kidnapping; larceny; robbery; illegal sale or possession of deadly weapons; prostitution (including soliciting, procuring, pandering, white slaving, keeping house of ill fame, and like offenses); extortion; swindling and confidence games; and attempting to commit, conspiring to commit, or compounding any of the foregoing crimes. Addiction to narcotic drugs and use of marihuana will be treated as if such were commercial crime.
    I immediately notice the absence of hate crime, homicide, and illegal use of deadly weapons.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    I would never hire a lawyer, I consider them the enemy.
    A lawyer is an officer of the court, his first duty is to the court.
    They are also members of the bar which is chartered in England.
    I am also not a 14th Amendment Subject of Congress, I am an
    American National with Unalienable Rights. A 14th Amendment citizen
    has Civil Rights given him by his Master....Congress, which can
    be taken away anytime.
    Lawyers are merely those who are knowledgeable about the law. Attorneys are licensed to practice the art of law. ((f)GB distinguishes between solicitors and barristers. I have met examples from both groups that I trust, as well as those whom I would trust half the distance I could throw the moon while standing under the Empire State Building.)

    While officers of the court, the first duty of a lawyer/attorney is to the law. Then to his client, And finally to the court.

    The Bar you refer to was not the first guild for those who practiced law. It's just a guild camoflaged as a consumer protection device.

    Sweet shivering Shiva, it's the gold fringe again! Enjoy. But I'll bet when someone breaks in your place and steals your stuff you are going to call the police.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    My Original statement = "in the unfortunate occurrence of an "Event", i.e., recent "Stand Your Ground" incident in Sanford Fla."

    I would first like to thank everyone for their opinions and concerns about the issue which I have brought up.

    My reasoning behind this subject is due to what has transpired over the last couple of weeks with the incident in Sanford Fla.

    I realize that I am approaching a subject that right now has a tremendous amount of attention and emotions involved, so,,,PLEASE,, let's all just keep our heads and have sensible reasoning prevail.

    I prefer that this DOES NOT become a Political, Personal, frontal of attack from members of differing opinions, after all, we are all American Taxpaying Citizens, RKBA Patriots and in some cases Family supporters, therefore WE are on the Same side,,, if push came to shove,,,,,,RIGHT !?!?!?

    I can't HEAR You !!!! /;<0

    My overall objective was one of attempting to get a general consensus about Groups/Associations/Individuals, that appear to be a legitimate force in preserving the 2nd Amnd. Rights for *OUR* defense *** IF *** someone were to find themselves in a predicament,,, capiche ?

    I also understand that certain *issues* are best left "unsaid", but in this case, I determined it a necessary evil to broach this particular subject. I am the type of person that prefers to go into a situation with a plan A,B & C if at all possible.

    Now, having said that, I deem it of the utmost importance to say this, and I quote,

    " It is critical that you realize that the MOMENT you're forced to draw your gun in self-defense there will be 100+ decisions that you'll need to make in a split second. The MOMENT you decide to draw your gun, your LIFE WILL CHANGE." (Forever) USCCA Membership home page.

    I do know that there WILL BE consequences to that particular act alone, and THAT isn't even considering the next step of determining *IF* the weapon should be discharged or not.

    So I would like to say that if ANYONE objects to having ANY further discussion about what *I* Chose to bring up, then I Do Not have Any problem just shutting this whole subject down a deleting the thread.

    Timing is everything, so maybe it might be best to discuss at some other time/ place or whatever.

    Respectfully submitted to all, Scott , Peace Out ! ;<)
    Is there a problem here? Not sure what is intended as humor, what to accept as a rant or read as serious thoughts..

    While staying on-topic is desired, this thread has not materially gone astray - a question was broached and various aspects are being discussed - that is well within the guidelines of OCDO. Agree that "WE are should on the Same side" and do not see otherwise demonstrated here - BTW dissenting opinions on a subject are permissible. It is through such pro vs con that we expand and learn - that is a decidedly good thing. Self-moderation from user/members is desirable; however, those that choose to post here are not empowered with the ability to "shut[ting] this whole subject down a[nd] deleting the thread."

    As to the OP premise/question that prepaid legal advice/protection being offered on the open market is good or desirable, that is a "golden calf" for many. No simple answer - each are encouraged to make their own decision. As for me, I choose to "pocket carry' the best attorney of my choice.

    With the Florida incident involving Mr. Z, the "stand your ground" relevance is in serious question and discussion of the events/issues is best left to threads already established.

    Since this topic/thread is neither solely related to Maine nor OC, it is being moved to the General Discussion sub-forum.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Hi Grapeshot,

    Thank you for your help.

    I just want to be involved with important issues to better supply others with the unknown variables of OC/CCW.

    Any assistance is greatly appreciated and any misunderstanding on my part is totally due to inexperience.

    I'll just be patient and let the cards fall where they will.

    Again, thanks for your concern and help !

    Sincerely, Scott
    Last edited by scott58dh; 04-05-2012 at 01:30 PM.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    Hi Grapeshot,

    Thank you for your help.

    I just want to be involved with important issues to better supply others with the unknown variables of OC/CCW.

    Any assistance is greatly appreciated and any misunderstanding on my part is totally due to inexperience.

    I'll just be patient and let the cards fall where they will.

    Again, thanks for your concern and help !

    Sincerely, Scott
    Scott - We are brothers here + plus an ever growing number of sisters-in-arms.

    There is a lot of wisdom here on OCDO - much of it gained from having been there and done that. Still, cannot expect to rest on the accomplishments of yesterday. I suspect that it will be the newer members that will teach the ol' dogs some new tricks and take us beyond where we are.

    Your enthusiasm is contagious and to be commended - don't ever lose it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Scott - We are brothers here + plus an ever growing number of sisters-in-arms.

    There is a lot of wisdom here on OCDO - much of it gained from having been there and done that. Still, cannot expect to rest on the accomplishments of yesterday. I suspect that it will be the newer members that will teach the ol' dogs some new tricks and take us beyond where we are.Your enthusiasm is contagious and to be commended - don't ever lose it.
    Very true in deed and more than one good point was made. I find it a shame that some of the old timers on OCDO are not as open-minded.

    This may sound like a stupid question.. but as I can not find anywhere that it is spelled out.. I would like to simply ask just what OCDO Stands for? That way if at a future time I were to be asked.. I would not be giving an incorrect answer or looking stupid for not knowing. If I were to simply presuppose.. I might say.. Open Carry dot Org
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Very true in deed and more than one good point was made. I find it a shame that some of the old timers on OCDO are not as open-minded.

    This may sound like a stupid question.. but as I can not find anywhere that it is spelled out.. I would like to simply ask just what OCDO Stands for? That way if at a future time I were to be asked.. I would not be giving an incorrect answer or looking stupid for not knowing. If I were to simply presuppose.. I might say.. Open Carry dot Org
    You would be most correct.

    opencarry.org = open carry dot org = ocdo = OCDO

    See also this thread for other abbreviations:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...+abbreviations
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You would be most correct.

    opencarry.org = open carry dot org = ocdo = OCDO

    See also this thread for other abbreviations:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...+abbreviations
    Thank you, I must have missed that thread.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Thank you, I must have missed that thread.
    Don't know how you could have done that - we only have 64,971 threads and 1,113,909 posts when I just checked ..

    Our search engine is not state of the art either, but it helps if you go "advanced search" then "search single content type" - it's near the top right on all forum pages. Use key words, rather than full sentences. Suggest opening the OCDO forum in a new window (two open) in order to protect where you are if you are in the middle of a post.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't know how you could have done that - we only have 64,971 threads and 1,113,909 posts when I just checked ..

    Our search engine is not state of the art either, but it helps if you go "advanced search" then "search single content type" - it's near the top right on all forum pages. Use key words, rather than full sentences. Suggest opening the OCDO forum in a new window (two open) in order to protect where you are if you are in the middle of a post.
    More good info.. Thank you.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    Where to go from here ?

    To Grapeshot and other "Brothers & Sisters in Arms",

    I would like to explain my objective with having started this thread as I originally intended it to be viewed as.

    [B]ORIGINAL POINT BEING = I was just looking thru a list of CCW Legal Defense Assoc's and was wondering, if any others out there in the "Carry" world believe if these "after you draw your firearm contact us" firms are really worth the investment of $95 - $300 yearly memberships."
    ***are they a wise and legitimate investment *** & ***curious about Lobby group memberships***.

    I then submitted a couple of lists to be used as examples of wise (or not) choices to be made concerning 2 different topics plus a suggestion of an interesting site which I came across, (This site has LOTS of Info,>>> http://www.americanfirearms.org/<<<).

    I have also made some follow up points to elaborate more on said topics, so If I have confused the issues, well I'll just say that Barney didn't always plan to discharge his firearm,,,,accidentally !?!...

    So, I'll bow out for now, get off of my soap box and see how things progress from here.

    Hopefully we can keep things in focus here as I believe that we should be united for RKBA and all that can be accomplished TOGETHER as it was when neighbor helped neighbor, and IF that needs to be discussed, well I'm all for it !
    Last edited by scott58dh; 04-07-2012 at 01:19 AM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    ~~ clipped for brevity ~~ I would like to explain my objective with having started this thread as I originally intended it to be viewed as.
    [B]ORIGINAL POINT BEING = I was just looking thru a list of CCW Legal Defense Assoc's and was wondering, if any others out there in the "Carry" world believe if these "after you draw your firearm contact us" firms are really worth the investment of $95 - $300 yearly memberships." ***are they a wise and legitimate investment *** & ***curious about Lobby group memberships***.
    I then submitted a couple of lists to be used as examples of wise (or not) choices to be made concerning 2 different topics plus a suggestion of an interesting site which I came across, (This site has LOTS of Info,>>> http://www.americanfirearms.org/<<<).
    ~~ Hopefully we can keep things in focus here as I believe that we should be united for RKBA and all that can be accomplished TOGETHER as it was when neighbor helped neighbor, and IF that needs to be discussed, well I'm all for it !
    I personally would not attempt to advise you of anything. I can suggest you ask yourself a couple of questions and then make your own decisions. I am not saying you should tell us what your answers are.. just that you should ask yourself to help you and you alone.
    First I think will be.. In your little segment of the United States what do you see as the general attitude of the people toward those who would protect themselves? to clarify it a bit.. Would they put you on a pedestal or trial?
    Next would be.. How confident are you that if you had to exercise your right of self protection, that you could clearly articulate your need to protect yourself and by extension your decision to pull your carry weapon in that defense?

    After you give careful consideration to how you answered those questions.. You should have a better understanding of whether or not a pre-paid legal defense would be worth your investment.

    Now, in reference to your question about Gun-Rights or Gun Lobbying organizations. There are those who will provide you with some weapon related coverage or extended coverage if you feel you need it and some a Very Good. The only thing I can say beyond that is to let your conscience be your guide.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    Hi LkWd_Don,

    Thanks very much for your "input". I will seriously consider your observations and greatly appreciate any further thots on this and other topics of your choosing.

    As a footnote, I do have "acquaintances" that have served in the legal front-= State Trooper, Legislator, Senator & Judge, so I suppose that I should be able to gleen any necessay info from them.

    Finally, what do you mean in your signature,,, "I will not Support WAC". Just curious ?

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I personally would not attempt to advise you of anything. I can suggest you ask yourself a couple of questions and then make your own decisions. I am not saying you should tell us what your answers are.. just that you should ask yourself to help you and you alone.

    First I think will be.. In your little segment of the United States what do you see as the general attitude of the people toward those who would protect themselves? to clarify it a bit.. Would they put you on a pedestal or trial?

    Next would be.. How confident are you that if you had to exercise your right of self protection, that you could clearly articulate your need to protect yourself and by extension your decision to pull your carry weapon in that defense?

    After you give careful consideration to how you answered those questions.. You should have a better understanding of whether or not a pre-paid legal defense would be worth your investment.

    Now, in reference to your question about Gun-Rights or Gun Lobbying organizations. There are those who will provide you with some weapon related coverage or extended coverage if you feel you need it and some a Very Good. The only thing I can say beyond that is to let your conscience be your guide.
    I also would not suppose to tell another what to do when there is potentially so much at stake.

    There are some questions you might want to ask yourself though. In a "prepaid plan" what is covered and what is not.

    Reading from one of the OP's suggested sites is the following explanation of services:


    • Key points in our program include: • A fee deposit paid by the Network to the member's attorney if the member has been involved in a self-defense incident. The deposit gets the legal defense immediately underway, with representation during questioning, and arranging for an independent investigation of the incident.


    • Network members are eligible for additional grants of financial assistance from the Network's Legal Defense Fund if they face unmeritorious prosecution or civil action after a self-defense incident occurring during their period of membership.


    • Key points in our program include: • A fee deposit paid by the Network to the member's attorney if the member has been involved in a self-defense incident. The deposit gets the legal defense immediately underway, with representation during questioning, and arranging for an independent investigation of the incident.


    • Network members are eligible for additional grants of financial assistance from the Network's Legal Defense Fund if they face unmeritorious prosecution or civil action after a self-defense incident occurring during their period of membership. http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/


    I have highlight certain words as you may see these as needing clarification through further inquiry.


    • self-defense incident = actual use of force, I would think. Other needs to defend against "charges" in the absence of a self-defense incident such as carrying where not allowed would likely not be covered and would presume to be disallowed.


    • unmeritorious = does this mean if the charges have "merit" you don't get benefit? Who decides?


    • arranging for an "independent investigation" = they will put you in touch with an attorney from their list, may not be the one you would otherwise have chosen and is the "investigation" to determine whether it is "unmeritorious' or "meritorious"?


    • deposit = not paying the full fee. $5,000 for a misdemeanor might be adequate, but $10,000 for a felony or multiple felonies is hardly a drop in the bucket. Not meaning to negate how good that check might look.


    • eligible for additional grants = no guarantee - what are the standards/criteria?



    Personally, the two most important questions would center around self-defense incident and unmeritorious.
    Caution should be exercised to get the full explanation of the terms and conditions - not just what you think the words say.

    Each of us must chose and decide in accordance with our own needs and abilities.

    Anyone from Virginia wishing to know whose card I carry in my wallet and why should feel free to ask me.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-05-2012 at 08:27 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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