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Thread: Permanent resident aliens have second amendment rights too

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Permanent resident aliens have second amendment rights too

    Please go and have a look at my latest article. In it, I review in detail the latest victory by SAF in Massachusetts.

    ...

    In Fletcher v. Haas, the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts held that Permanent resident aliens are included amongst ‘the people’ as the term is used in the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.

    The Second Amendment challenge was based upon the argument that since the firearms identification card is a pre-requisite to simple possession of a firearm in the home for self-defense, any barrier to acquisition of a firearms identification card touches upon what the Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller described as the ‘core’ of the Second Amendment.

    (Excerpt) Read more

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    Florida recognizes this as well, extending such recognition to any lawful resident alien (known sometimes as a "green card holder") who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms, and licenses same to carry as it would any US citizen who also applies.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedWheeler View Post
    Florida recognizes this as well, extending such recognition to any lawful resident alien (known sometimes as a "green card holder") who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms, and licenses same to carry as it would any US citizen who also applies.
    Perhaps the talking point of this decision is that Massachusetts is being forced to recognize not only the Second Amendment, but that the whole durned Constitution is the law of the land. A slightly less important point is that there now can be a discussion in the courts as to just whom "The People" are.

    If ths decision survives appeal, Massachusetts will be one, if not more, steps closer to joining Free America.

    stay safe.
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  4. #4
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    When will the same logic be used to extend to resident aliens the right to vote?

  5. #5
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    'Permanent'....interesting concept.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    IMO, US constitutional rights are for US citizens. They do not transcend borders nor ideals, if you are not a US citizen the rights that our founding fathers documented do not necessarily pertain to you. If you would like to have those rights then you need to become a part of this country. Just crossing the border does not grant you the rights and privilages of this country.

    This being said prior to reading the above mentioned article, this is how I feel.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  7. #7
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    IMO, US constitutional rights are for US citizens. They do not transcend borders nor ideals, if you are not a US citizen the rights that our founding fathers documented do not necessarily pertain to you. If you would like to have those rights then you need to become a part of this country. Just crossing the border does not grant you the rights and privilages of this country.

    This being said prior to reading the above mentioned article, this is how I feel.
    The Founding Fathers, authors of the Constitution and Bill of Rights held the truth of Natural Rights to be self-evident.

    See Hillsdale.edu College and their free on-line Constitution 101.

  8. #8
    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    IMO, US constitutional rights are for US citizens. They do not transcend borders nor ideals, if you are not a US citizen the rights that our founding fathers documented do not necessarily pertain to you. If you would like to have those rights then you need to become a part of this country. Just crossing the border does not grant you the rights and privilages of this country.

    This being said prior to reading the above mentioned article, this is how I feel.
    The rights to which you refer, are not yours because they were written on a piece of paper. They were yours when you were born, regardless of the geography in which you popped out. All men are created equal... right?

    BTW, receiving permanent resident status involves a little more than crossing a line on a map.
    Last edited by John Canuck; 04-04-2012 at 10:25 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedWheeler View Post
    Florida recognizes this as well, extending such recognition to any lawful resident alien (known sometimes as a "green card holder") who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms, and licenses same to carry as it would any US citizen who also applies.
    Unfortunately not true! Florida has a complete (and unconstitutional) ban on public carry by expatriate U.S. Citizens. Having a primary foreign residence makes these law-abiding Americans ineligible to apply for a Florida permit as per current Florida law. Florida will also not honor any other State permit held by U.S. Citizens who reside overseas . . . a complete carry ban. This affects many Americans who might have long-term overseas employment or are studying or living abroad who temporarily return to the States and wish to carry in Florida. Any previously obtained, other-wise valid, Florida or State permit held by these law-abiding Citizens becomes null & void (as far as Florida is concerned) upon a change to foreign residency. Of course, many would not realize this and would be unwittingly committing a felony under current Florida law if back in Florida on a visit.

    I really like the Federal judge's holding that legal resident Aliens have Second Amendment Rights. Extending the same logic, non-residents (legal Aliens and Citizens of other states, and expatriate Americans alike) should also have Second Amendment Rights in Massachusetts (whose laws are far more draconian than Florida). I see Massachusetts' onerous pistol licensing scheme being very vulnerable to legal attack by non-residents, in particular. It would be much more difficult for the State to justify many, if not all, of Massachusetts' silly licensing requirements (say a letter from their local LEO) if that American happens to live abroad and such LEO letters are not obtainable from their foreign authorities.

    I really think (hope) that the SAF/COMM2A legal strategy is to nail down the Constitutional principals first (i.e. Second Amendment applies to 'everybody' not just a select few) then later go back and selectively attack gun-control regulations one-by-one, rather than attempt sweeping and wholesale gutting of the State's entire regulatory scheme (not that they wouldn't want to) from the get-go.

    Good news for every American!
    Last edited by OC4me; 04-04-2012 at 10:34 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    'Permanent'....interesting concept.
    Permanent Resident Alien

    An alien admitted to the United States as a lawful permanent resident. Permanent residents are also commonly referred to as immigrants; however, the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) broadly defines an immigrant as any alien in the United States, except one legally admitted under specific nonimmigrant categories (INA section 101(a)(15)). An illegal alien who entered the United States without inspection, for example, would be strictly defined as an immigrant under the INA but is not a permanent resident alien. Lawful permanent residents are legally accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States. They may be issued immigrant visas by the Department of State overseas or adjusted to permanent resident status by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in the United States.

    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...0048f3d6a1RCRD

  11. #11
    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Canuck View Post
    BTW, receiving permanent resident status involves a little more than crossing a line on a map.
    An immigrant usually has to go through a three-step process to get permanent residency. The whole process may take several years, depending on the type of immigrant category and the country of birth.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permane...9#cite_note-44

  12. #12
    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbanger View Post
    An immigrant usually has to go through a three-step process to get permanent residency. The whole process may take several years, depending on the type of immigrant category and the country of birth.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permane...9#cite_note-44
    Yes I know. I've done it.

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